Page 6 of 53 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 529
Thanks Tree285Thanks

Thread: Orthodox Family Feels Trapped on Shabbat

  1. #51
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    66,612
    Thanks
    34212

    From
    Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    That's the thing... Sabbath observations are supposed to be inconvenient.
    I have never met any rabbi who made such an assertion. Plus, Orthodox Jews do not think of it that way.

  2. #52
    Banned Camp
    Joined
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    45,959
    Thanks
    18325

    From
    God Bless Texas
    They don't pay rent, FYI. They own their apartment. They pay condo association assessments, aka 'dues' to pay for electricity in common areas and things like the lights and the key-fob system to use the pool area.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey

  3. #53
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    57,905
    Thanks
    33512

    From
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    Back in the day, I think Catholics used to fast on Fridays. But now it seems to have evolved into no meat on Fridays, during lent, Good Friday and Ash Wednesday.
    Not since Vatican II, in 1962. Meatless Fridays went the way of nun's habits and ladies wearing hats to church.

    Church fish fries are popular fundraisers for Catholic churches because of old people like me. It's how I grew up and there is no rule REQUIRING that Catholics eat meat on Fridays.

    Fish fries are like a little festival every week during Lent, but eating is now completely unregulated, apart from the sin of gluttony.

    My favorite slur is referring to a Catholic as a "makerel snapper". Lolol.
    Last edited by Madeline; 13th July 2018 at 08:44 AM.
    Thanks from Friday13

  4. #54
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    66,612
    Thanks
    34212

    From
    Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Is the physical flipping on the light switch the act that is prohibited or just causing it to come on?
    Turning it on or off is prohibited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    When I was a kid, I responded to an ad seeking a goy. A term that I did not know at the time.
    The word literally means "nation," but contextually is a reference to a non-Jew.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Would his asking me to turn on the lights in his office, be any different, from the rules standpoint, than automation turning on the light?
    If the automation is a timer that was preset before Shabbat, then no intervention on Shabbat is necessary. If it is a motion sensor, then it is only the intervention on Shabbat (by virtue of motion in range of the sensor) that activates it, thus turning it on. The timer is permissible, but operating the sensor is not. (Naturally, if you do not know about it, there is no violation.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Would Smart Plugs and Smart Bulbs be allowed to be used?
    I am not familiar with these.
    Thanks from Madeline

  5. #55
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    66,612
    Thanks
    34212

    From
    Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    Yup. Different Rabbis are going to say different things:
    That is, of course, true. Sometimes, the right answer is just not known, or there are multiple valid approaches as to how the rules apply to a particular situation, and sometimes a minority opinion is perfectly valid to rely upon. With some things there is virtually universal agreement, and not so much with others. This can, of course, get enormously complicated (as if it was not complex enough already).
    Thanks from Madeline and Friday13

  6. #56
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    38,349
    Thanks
    7835

    From
    Shady Dale, Georgia
    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    I call BS on the elevator scheme! Ian????? Is that logic derived from the same idea of leaving a light on continuously starting before the sabbath?
    It is very true.

    “It’ll stop on like every floor,” said the woman, Shira Stember, standing in the lobby of a Seward Park co-op building on the Lower East Side. While she is happy the elevator is there for her neighbors, Ms. Stember said, she prefers to take the next car, because this open door leads into a Shabbos elevator.

    From sundown on Friday until the sun sets on Saturday, many observant Jews refrain from certain activities, including pushing elevator buttons, following a restriction that comes from a prohibition against creating sparks and fires. So in some buildings, elevators are programmed to stop automatically on every floor during the Sabbath. That way, observant Jews can hop right in and, eventually, get where they are going.

    These systems, long a fixture in hospitals as well, can be lifesavers for older people and those with disabilities, and they allow the observant to live on floors that are too high to hoof it. But they also slow down elevator traffic. A lot.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/06/n...-the-work.html

  7. #57
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    38,349
    Thanks
    7835

    From
    Shady Dale, Georgia
    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    Back in the day, I think Catholics used to fast on Fridays. But now it seems to have evolved into no meat on Fridays, during lent, Good Friday and Ash Wednesday.
    This changed with Vatican II. My grandmother was a devout Catholic her entire life. Said it was the ruination of the church.

  8. #58
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    66,612
    Thanks
    34212

    From
    Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Maybe they are fetishizing the rules.
    Hardly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    So, if the baby son has some breathing issues during sleep and needs a CPAC, but nobody will flip the on switch on Friday nights, the government can and should step in to whatever degree is necessary to protect that child from that harm.

    Just like all religions, 99% of rabbis would declare that turning on the breathing machine on Friday nights is permissible, because when God made the rules, he never intended babies would be neglected to death.
    Not just babies. I have a CPAP, and use it every day. In fact, I only missed on night in the past 8 years (and a few months), but only because the power went out - on Shabbat, around midnight - and I was unable to use it anyway. (That one night still irks me ... I hate sleeping without the CPAP.) The CPAP is perfectly permissible precisely because it preserves life (see pikuach nefesh), and in fact mandatory on that basis.
    Thanks from Madeline and Friday13

  9. #59
    Banned Camp
    Joined
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    45,959
    Thanks
    18325

    From
    God Bless Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    That is, of course, true. Sometimes, the right answer is just not known, or there are multiple valid approaches as to how the rules apply to a particular situation, and sometimes a minority opinion is perfectly valid to rely upon. With some things there is virtually universal agreement, and not so much with others. This can, of course, get enormously complicated (as if it was not complex enough already).
    I think these people are just too strict for the modern world and will ultimately be better off moving at least to a place with more Jews and decisions about such things being made in their favor. Fixing the lights wouldn't be enough. He is longingly looking at people enjoying the pool. They are miserable.
    Thanks from Friday13

  10. #60
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    57,905
    Thanks
    33512

    From
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    I think reasonable accommodations should be made when they can. I am sure they are willing to pay the electricity cost, what is the harm to the condo association or other residents?
    There are no end to "reasonable" accomodations, and the other condo owners almost certainly include some adherents of other faiths.

    Prisoners have been endlessly inventive on questions of religious observance.

    Should the common rooms remain free of holiday decor, to accommodate the Jehovah's Witnesses? Do the Pennsylvania Dutch/Amish get to hang up hex signs to ward off evil? Can the Voodoo practitioners slaughter chickens and goats outside the front door, to bless the place with their carcasses? Do the Muslim owners get to prohibit coed swimming?

    Etc.

    It's fucking hard to find ways for groups of humans to get along when all they have in common is they all liked a certain condo building, so they bought a unit.
    Last edited by Madeline; 13th July 2018 at 08:54 AM.
    Thanks from Friday13

Page 6 of 53 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Trapped Mexican Bakers
    By MaryAnne in forum Current Events
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 1st September 2017, 04:03 AM
  2. Trapped
    By Devil505 in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 29th March 2017, 09:11 AM
  3. Worker trapped in vat of chocolate for 2 hours
    By Mrs Behavin in forum Economics
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11th April 2009, 04:23 AM
  4. Trapped Australian miners freed
    By News Poster in forum Current Events
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 8th May 2006, 10:21 PM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed