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Thread: How can you be logical and religious?

  1. #31
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frecks1710 View Post
    Not everything in this world can be based on pure facts and logic. I believe in doing all that one can to reach a goal or to help a loved one who is ill. But I also believe in taking it one step further to pray to a higher spiritual being; not necessarily for a miracle, but for guidance and inner peace. If one can maintain that positive outlook and feel “a spark”, that is something of importance to me. Feeling uplifted, hopeful, and motivated in times of adversity is to me a miracle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    They are opinions and no proof exists in either direction
    That is my opinion,only.. I do not speak for others.

  2. #32
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    I have a very serious question. First off, I know what you're thinking, that I'm about to slam religion as I always do. Hopefully this thread doesn't sink to that.

    How can logic and faith coexist? Can they coexist?
    I'm a very cynical person, have been my entire life. I hear stories told by those of faith, read the Bible...and the results are always the same. Logic stands in the way. I simply can't get past the logic that is always lacking in Bible stories. Noah simply couldn't have done what is claimed. Crucified people don't return from the dead. Burning bushes can't talk...and on and on and on.
    Then there is my belief that those of faith believe in these things simply because of a fear of death...they cling to the desire for there to be more to our existence than what we have in our lifetime. This is what my common sense and logic tell me is true. I cling to that belief as strongly as those of faith cling to their belief.
    Can a very logical person be very religious, and how did they get to that point?
    How can anyone "believe" in or "believe" anything and still be logical? Logic refers to something that makes sense, although not necessarily proven. When you learn something, from someone else, why do you have faith, that what they are telling you is true, if you did not have their firsthand experience? How do you believe any history at all, since you have to have a sense of faith that what has been recorded has some truth to it. Skepticism seems to be a survival instinct, but as with any instinct, an unhealthy of overactive "instinct" can work against survival or against any sort of peace of mind or needed rest for the mind, between the need for an alert mind. If I or anyone asked you to tell us what came before the universe, you might say, you do not know, as none of us know, but does that make the question go away? The universe, time and motion are all vast things to contemplate. When there was a need to try to explain things much more immediate and tangible to human life, such as what's with lightning and thunder, floods and famine, what's with drought and fire, the need for an answer was forthcoming and no doubt in the mix of those who sincerely did not know, but developed an explanation in their own mind that included god(s), there were those who noted how they could use the power of the unknown and people's fears, to their own advantage, by claiming to know what was behind the above listed hardships to humans and more. Good story tellers can enrapture all manner of people with tales that sound authentic and true, but could be a fictional as the moon being made of green cheese.......Among those with an aptitude for enrapturing people with tales, also were those who saw how they could work such power to their personal advantage. They still do. They appeal to people's fear of the unknown and death, while a part of life, is an unknown to all people, because once truly dead, no one, but in stories and beliefs, has come back to assure anyone what it is like or even if there is anything after life.....the prospect of nothingness, is truly frightening to many people, religious and non-religious alike.

    Ironically, while there seems logical reason to fear the religious when some of them try to force everyone else to believe what they believe, there also seems to be a curiosity or fear of people who do have faith or believe in god(s). To me, I don't see how religion is not logical or incompatible with logic. I don't see them in conflict, but I see some people who believe they are. They certainly seem to be when those in either "grouping" appear to want to force those of any other grouping to believe as they do or try to bar or ban someone based on what they believe, when what they believe, is not doing harm to anyone else.

    Science is a work in progress as most people will note new discoveries often override older discoveries or beliefs. Religion still has a place as humans have only theorized, not proved the origins of the universe. Over most of human history, much of what humans know now, was not known or uncovered(discovered). When one cannot explain something, they hold on to beliefs about what "causes" something to happen or occur. This could be said to "make sense" or be logical in some manner. One might also hold on to values and morals that have no religious origin, but one's personal belief from their perceptions of what makes people harmonious and what causes friction and conflict, although they may never have any definitive proof of what seems "logical" to them. In addition, any "proof" someone might have, can be subject to change, but in order for humanity to function and live each day without having totally, irrefutable and absolute truth about all they do in hand, they need to be trusting of what sounds logical, based on what they and a whole lot of others have come to know.

    Most people believe a lot of what they learn without having definitive proof or first hand experience. They have to have faith and trust as those that believe in God or godlike entities/creators do, that until they know otherwise they believe in them. Even someone who is not religious can see parallels in some religious values and their own, regardless of how they came to agree to the same values and principles.

    I believe the trouble for humanity comes, when some humans try to connect themselves or usurp the role of godly entities and use that role to exploit those who believe such a connection and allow themselves to be manipulated by humans claiming to know what the god(s) wants and doing so to move their own personal agenda's forward, such as mega-mansions, mega-wealth, by conning others into believing they have some special connection to the gods.

    "My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."
    http://www.deism.com/einstein.htm
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 26th July 2018 at 03:45 PM.

  3. #33
    Frecks1710 Frecks1710's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    If one's faith gives them comfort that is a good thing....for them.
    A child who gets comfort from their security blanket is the same stituation though, isn't it?

    No evidence that the blanket has any effect on reality though. Just the belief/faith that it does is the only thing that's beneficial to the faithful.
    Power of the mind: If a placebo or a belief helps the individual to be a stronger or better person, go for it! Life has its mysteries. Not everything can or needs to be explained and rationalized. There is a mysterious beauty in life.
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  4. #34
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frecks1710 View Post
    Power of the mind: If a placebo or a belief helps the individual to be a stronger or better person, go for it! Life has its mysteries. Not everything can or needs to be explained and rationalized. There is a mysterious beauty in life.
    I'm from Missouri.

  5. #35
    Veteran Member Dr Sampson Simpson's Avatar
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    Basically, as has been said, there is nothing wrong with faith until you start acting like your faith is the truth.
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  6. #36
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Sampson Simpson View Post
    Basically, as has been said, there is nothing wrong with faith until you start acting like your faith is the truth.
    Defending faith based upon its positive effect on someone has no bearing on the reality of the belief itself.

    The tooth Fairy was fun when I was a child. The fairy tale was beneficial.......but it was still a fairy tale believed due to immaturity.

  7. #37
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frecks1710 View Post
    Power of the mind: If a placebo or a belief helps the individual to be a stronger or better person, go for it! Life has its mysteries. Not everything can or needs to be explained and rationalized. There is a mysterious beauty in life.
    For mysteries to be truthful/factualy explained there must be verifiable evidence.
    (I don't like mysteries)lol
    Last edited by Devil505; 26th July 2018 at 11:53 AM.

  8. #38
    Frecks1710 Frecks1710's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    For mysteries to be truthful/factualy explained there must be verifiable evidence.
    (I don't like mysteries)lol
    If you like a certain food, see the beauty in nature, feel love for a person, itís not based on logic and rationalization. Some things just evolve. Likes and dislikes just are. A person is made up of much more than just reason. Reasoning is and should be part of life. But it is not all of life.
    Thanks from MaryAnne and Devil505

  9. #39
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Sampson Simpson View Post
    Basically, as has been said, there is nothing wrong with faith until you start acting like your faith is the truth.
    This is not necessarily so. It actually only becomes a problem when people try to force others to act like it is the truth.

    Say I win a $100M Powerball (after taxes), and I donate $10M to poor people because my religious law tells me this is my obligation. By donating that $$, I would be acting like my faith is the truth. I will assume you find "nothing wrong with" that.
    Thanks from MaryAnne and Frecks1710

  10. #40
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    I like the Book of Proverbs because its filled with logic for everyday living.
    Proverbs 3 :1 1 My son, do not forget my teaching, But let your heart keep my commandments; 2 For length of days and years of life And peace they will add to you. 3 Do not let kindness and truth leave you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart. 4 So you will find favor and good repute In the sight of God and man.

    5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight. 7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and turn away from evil. 8 It will be healing to your body And refreshment to your bones. 9 Honor the LORD from your wealth And from the first of all your produce; 10 So your barns will be filled with plenty And your vats will overflow with new wine.https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-ro...il-in-Proverbs
    If you want logic on how to get thru life read Proverbs and it will help you

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