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Thread: How can you be logical and religious?

  1. #41
    Veteran Member Dr Sampson Simpson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    This is not necessarily so. It actually only becomes a problem when people try to force others to act like it is the truth.

    Say I win a $100M Powerball (after taxes), and I donate $10M to poor people because my religious law tells me this is my obligation. By donating that $$, I would be acting like my faith is the truth. I will assume you find "nothing wrong with" that.
    I disagree, and I was going to elaborate more on my post now that I thought about it so your post gives me a perfect opportunity. What about those people that deprive themselves of any enjoyment in life based on their faith? or they deny themselves or their kids medical treatment. That is having a negative effect on their lives. And if the religious belief is against vaccines, now it could be risking other peoples health. or how about those that live a life of guilt and shame because their faith is those natural urges like being attracted to someone, or wanting something they have, is bad? that's negatively affected their lives. Of course, that's more of the extremist version.

    And actually, some people think their faith requires them to spread the word to others, which is why there is a problem with religious people preaching to others

  2. #42
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frecks1710 View Post
    If you like a certain food, see the beauty in nature, feel love for a person, it’s not based on logic and rationalization. Some things just evolve. Likes and dislikes just are. A person is made up of much more than just reason. Reasoning is and should be part of life. But it is not all of life.
    Blasphemy to us Vulcans!
    I want to find out WHY we like/dislike things.....why we like certain types of music, food....Why we love who we love.
    Last edited by Devil505; 26th July 2018 at 01:52 PM.

  3. #43
    Frecks1710 Frecks1710's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Blasphemy to us Vulcans!
    I want to find out WHY we like/dislike things.....why we like certain types of music, food....Why we love who we love.
    That, my Devil, is one of the great mysteries of the human race. That is a exactly what makes life so varied, exciting, and interesting. One can never be too sure of anything. Hopefully, a lot more inexplicable exciting things will outweigh the seriousness and problems we all experience!

  4. #44
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frecks1710 View Post
    That, my Devil, is one of the great mysteries of the human race. That is a exactly what makes life so varied, exciting, and interesting. One can never be too sure of anything. Hopefully, a lot more inexplicable exciting things will outweigh the seriousness and problems we all experience!
    That, Ms Frecks, is a challenge to any investigator/curious person.
    We don't like unsolved mysteries......we seek explanations for everything!

    Romanticists, like you and my wife, are satisfied without knowing the "why" to these mysteries.
    Last edited by Devil505; 26th July 2018 at 03:17 PM.

  5. #45
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Sampson Simpson View Post
    What about those people that deprive themselves of any enjoyment in life based on their faith? or they deny themselves or their kids medical treatment. That is having a negative effect on their lives. And if the religious belief is against vaccines, now it could be risking other peoples health. or how about those that live a life of guilt and shame because their faith is those natural urges like being attracted to someone, or wanting something they have, is bad? that's negatively affected their lives. Of course, that's more of the extremist version.

    And actually, some people think their faith requires them to spread the word to others, which is why there is a problem with religious people preaching to others
    You are mixing in people acting on themselves versus acting on others. They are two different things, as I indicated in my post. And why can a person not derive more enjoyment from following spiritual rules instead of seeking physical pleasure?

  6. #46
    Shiny Purple Member namvet69's Avatar
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    I'm not a biblical scholar but I know there are passages that instruct the reader/believer to "abandon your common sense" Or something equal to that. And just believe because it is written. But when we look at how many different religions there are and the differences between tenets of the same religion, I think it's a crap shoot. They can't all be right. Buddha, Jesus, Jehovah, and on and on. Best I can figure is that every people wants something to explain what is inexplicable. And, all too often some way to excuse outrageous abuses. That's why I'm an atheist.

    I think the scales are tipped in the way of excusing bad behavior, abuse, murder, crimes of all kinds, atrocities etc. I think John Lennon had the right answer. Imagine no religion, nothing to kill or die for. No built-in excuses for raping children or taking people's money etc etc.

    The whole idea of confession for instance blows my mind. You can be an evil mother all week and be absolved of it on Saturday and be one with the almighty on Sunday. Bullshit. My dad used to say, "If someone tells you they're a Christian and you didn't ask, hold on to your wallet and hide the kids."
    Thanks from Devil505

  7. #47
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namvet69 View Post
    I'm not a biblical scholar but I know there are passages that instruct the reader/believer to "abandon your common sense" Or something equal to that. And just believe because it is written. But when we look at how many different religions there are and the differences between tenets of the same religion, I think it's a crap shoot. They can't all be right. Buddha, Jesus, Jehovah, and on and on. Best I can figure is that every people wants something to explain what is inexplicable. And, all too often some way to excuse outrageous abuses. That's why I'm an atheist.

    I think the scales are tipped in the way of excusing bad behavior, abuse, murder, crimes of all kinds, atrocities etc. I think John Lennon had the right answer. Imagine no religion, nothing to kill or die for. No built-in excuses for raping children or taking people's money etc etc.

    The whole idea of confession for instance blows my mind. You can be an evil mother all week and be absolved of it on Saturday and be one with the almighty on Sunday. Bullshit. My dad used to say, "If someone tells you they're a Christian and you didn't ask, hold on to your wallet and hide the kids."
    Here is a saying from the Book of Proverbs. "The Love of Money is the Root of all Evil" . To you is this saying nonsense and Illogical ?

  8. #48
    Frecks1710 Frecks1710's Avatar
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    Unsolved mysteries

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    That, Ms Frecks, is a challenge to any investigator/curious person.
    We don't like unsolved mysteries......we seek explanations for everything!

    Romanticists, like you and my wife, are satisfied without knowing the "why" to these mysteries.
    Explain how a person falls in love and chooses to spend the rest of their life with another person. I am not talking about religions that choose your mate for you. What makes that person special? He or she may not be the ideal match, yet there is something there between the two people that goes beyond a logical coupling.

  9. #49
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frecks1710 View Post
    I am not talking about religions that choose your mate for you.

    Most religions have promoted arranged marriages, at one time or another, if they don't currently do so.

    The notion that the modern concept of marriage for love (and I mean even prior to the legalization of same sex marriage) has a long established history is totally inaccurate.

    "Biblical marriage" has implied some pretty bizarre behavior in the past, when looked at from a more modern point of view.

  10. #50
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frecks1710 View Post
    Explain how a person falls in love and chooses to spend the rest of their life with another person. I am not talking about religions that choose your mate for you. What makes that person special? He or she may not be the ideal match, yet there is something there between the two people that goes beyond a logical coupling.
    True but investigators will always be driven to find out what it is that creates that attraction/love.
    Spock here.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey

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