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Thread: How can you be logical and religious?

  1. #61
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    No.

    Logic relies on evidence and faith is a child believing in Santa Claus.
    Oh, you no fool me! There ain't no Sanity Clause!!
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    I have a very serious question. First off, I know what you're thinking, that I'm about to slam religion as I always do. Hopefully this thread doesn't sink to that.

    How can logic and faith coexist? Can they coexist?
    Of course they can. Religious thinking is usually logical, or more specifically "valid." For an argument to be sound, it has to be both valid (logically consistent) and true (based on accurate premises). It's not the validity of religious arguments that is questionable but their truth, which is based not on measurable observations but received tradition. It's logical to conclude that the earth is the center of the universe based on Western religious texts, but it's not sound because Western religious texts are disproven by scientific observation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Sampson Simpson View Post
    I disagree, and I was going to elaborate more on my post now that I thought about it so your post gives me a perfect opportunity. What about those people that deprive themselves of any enjoyment in life based on their faith?
    I don't believe anyone is capable of depriving themselves of ANY enjoyment in life based on their faith. One of the enjoyments of a religious life is the pleasure of thinking one's self morally superior to others. As Mark Twain famously stated, "The greatest of Christian principles is that nothing needs reforming so much as other people's bad habits." The self-satisfaction that comes from this conclusion is an intoxicating pleasure.
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  4. #64
    Shiny Purple Member namvet69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    It was not an "excuse" of any kind. The full range of facts only partially supports your narrative, and refutes some of it.


    I do not even know who "the sinners" are supposed to be. My religion does not use that kind of language in ordinary discourse.


    How does this support your narrative - or, more importantly, relate at all to the partial refutation?

    The commission of atrocities is the fault of people, not the institutions we create. The world John Lennon "imagined" would have everyone be a blade of grass.
    Since I don't know what your religion is, I can't comment on that specifically. But you kind of made my point. There are so many and they are so diverse that seeking any central truths is an exercise in futility. Yes the atrocities are the fault of people, I'm not an idiot. But I was speaking to the getaway provided by religion. The whole god made me do it or the devil took control of me syndrome. Folks become guilt-ridden to think badly of their religious leaders and time and time again, they not only get away with it (transgressions against their flock) but are embraced as being somehow above it all.

    The Child rapists are a prime example as are, gee the list is so long. The televangelist thieves, the cults, the so-called established religions like Scientology, Mormonism, etc etc. It's an environment that is ideal for users to use.


    Lennon was envisioning a world devoid of people abusing one another but helping each other instead. Blades of grass? Maybe, but his message was as much of an ideal to shoot for as any religious tenet I've ever heard and a whole lot more realistic than belief in ghosts, men as saints, people in robes make them more than etc. If Lennon's message was unrealistic, then the promise of religious scriptures are just plain crazy. Of course you can believe whatever you want to or maybe that's too strong a statement because of religious dogma.
    Last edited by namvet69; 27th July 2018 at 05:33 AM.

  5. #65
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I don't believe anyone is capable of depriving themselves of ANY enjoyment in life based on their faith. One of the enjoyments of a religious life is the pleasure of thinking one's self morally superior to others.
    One can derive pleasure from spiritual pursuits without thinking oneself morally superior.

  6. #66
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namvet69 View Post
    Since I don't know what your religion is, I can't comment on that specifically.
    Sorry, I thought you knew. I am Jewish (Orthodox).

    Quote Originally Posted by namvet69 View Post
    Yes the atrocities are the fault of people, I'm not an idiot. But I was speaking to the getaway provided by religion. The whole g-d made me do it or the devil took control of me syndrome.
    In my experience, and to the best of my knowledge and understanding, that syndrome is limited to one religion (or, perhaps more accurately, series of religions under the same umbrella).

  7. #67
    Shiny Purple Member namvet69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Sorry, I thought you knew. I am Jewish (Orthodox).


    In my experience, and to the best of my knowledge and understanding, that syndrome is limited to one religion (or, perhaps more accurately, series of religions under the same umbrella).
    That's one big umbrella.

  8. #68
    Member Claudius the God's Avatar
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    Using logic as the only basis can lead to wrong conclusions if the premise used is incorrect. For instance, Columbus thought there was gold in the islands he discovered. He saw some natives with gold pieces. This led him to believe there was gold nearby so he dug everywhere. That was logical. But there was no gold there to speak of so his starting premise was wrong but his logic was perfect.

  9. #69
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I don't believe anyone is capable of depriving themselves of ANY enjoyment in life based on their faith. One of the enjoyments of a religious life is the pleasure of thinking one's self morally superior to others. As Mark Twain famously stated, "The greatest of Christian principles is that nothing needs reforming so much as other people's bad habits." The self-satisfaction that comes from this conclusion is an intoxicating pleasure.
    The enjoyments of a religious life is having a relationship with God. Your version seems to think a religious life is done to be arrogant to others. Couldn't be further from the truth. The Christian is in hopes that others can be blessed by God as well.

  10. #70
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Woody Allen: "Sex is dirty only if it's done right."

    I am fond of that quote!
    Not surprised coming from a child molester.

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