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Thread: Separation of Church and State

  1. #1
    Tick

    Separation of Church and State

    What is the most important part of this "separation". Do you believe that It means tah t all religon shoud be verbotten, or do you believe that it has been talen too far, or do you beleive that those who believe are wrong if they interpret things by what they beleive.

    This open to discssion and relection.

  2. #2
    Ausinus

    Re: Separation of Church and State

    There should be a totally complete separation of Church and state - which includes striking the word marriage from the legislation, and stripping clergymen of their ability to legally join two people. It also entails removing 'under god' from the pledge, and replacing 'in god we trust' with 'E Pluribus Unum'. And while we're at it, lets make it so you cant take an oath in court or when you take office - everyone has to affirm.

  3. #3
    Tick

    Re: Separation of Church and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausinus View Post
    There should be a totally complete separation of Church and state - which includes striking the word marriage from the legislation, and stripping clergymen of their ability to legally join two people. It also entails removing 'under god' from the pledge, and replacing 'in god we trust' with 'E Pluribus Unum'. And while we're at it, lets make it so you cant take an oath in court or when you take office - everyone has to affirm.
    So you think there should be no public expressions of faith whatsoever? So you want to replace expressions of faith with Athiest abstenace?

  4. #4
    Ausinus

    Re: Separation of Church and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Tick View Post
    So you think there should be no public expressions of faith whatsoever? So you want to replace expressions of faith with Athiest abstenace?
    Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof

    Freedom of worship needs to be inviolate - however the same goes for separation of church and state.

  5. #5
    Nerv14

    Re: Separation of Church and State

    I think that having all of that religion in our government is Constitutional because the 1st amendment only outlaws an established religion.

    However... when it comes to what we should do, we really shouldn't have religion anywhere in government. Not everyone is religious and not everyone is a Christian or even a monotheist. Separating religion and state isn't atheist but it is just not bringing up religion and it isn't bringing up atheism

    It isn't like coins should instead say "in science we trust" and "we pray to this America because it is the only thing watching over us." That would be atheism in the government which would be as bad as having religion in it.

    A separation between church and state doesn't promote religion or a lack of it... it just promotes people chosing their religion or lack of it on their own. Is that too much to ask???

  6. #6
    Nerv14

    Re: Separation of Church and State

    I am fine with religion playing a role in our government, but by that I mean that religion can influence our ethics which we can use to influence our laws.

    As long as there is a reason for us to follow religious morals and make them our ethics then that is fine. There just needs to be a reason.

    Morals: religious or cultural rules of life
    Ethics: rules of life decided by certain reasons.

    Morals can influence our ethics, but it is ethics that should influence our laws.

  7. #7
    Pragmatist

    Re: Separation of Church and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Tick View Post
    What is the most important part of this "separation". Do you believe that It means tah t all religon shoud be verbotten, or do you believe that it has been talen too far, or do you beleive that those who believe are wrong if they interpret things by what they beleive.

    This open to discssion and relection.
    Noone ever claimed that religion should be "verbotten", just that govt should not be endorsing any of them.

  8. #8
    Think for myself

    Re: Separation of Church and State

    I think if people want to pray to sky fairies, go for it. Do it as much as you want. Keep the tax exempt status on it. I could not possibly care any less.

    However, when those same sky fairies take a role in government, then I have a severe issue with it, and I think that all religion and religious connotations should be instantly removed from government.

  9. #9
    Pragmatist

    Re: Separation of Church and State

    Quote Originally Posted by Think for myself View Post
    I think if people want to pray to sky fairies, go for it. Do it as much as you want. Keep the tax exempt status on it. I could not possibly care any less.

    However, when those same sky fairies take a role in government, then I have a severe issue with it, and I think that all religion and religious connotations should be instantly removed from government.
    I don't have a problem with "in god we trust" or "under god" in the pledge. Your god can be anything you want it to be. If your god happens to be Allah, then when you say the pledge, thats the god you are referring to. If you do not believe in god then leave that sentence out if you want, noones going to force you to say it. When they came up with the pledge I guess they figured the majority would have some faith. Big deal, they may have been wrong, changing it is kinda childish. Noone claims that it is the christian god.

  10. #10
    Goldwater

    Re: Separation of Church and State

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances...

    None of you may believe this coming from me, a firm believer that Creationism and ID should stay in Church, and that the religious beliefs of our elected officials should stay in Church or at thier homes. But...

    If someone wants to practice religion anywhere in the USA at anytime, they should be free to excersize it. Even if it's in Congress, or the Oval Office. Where Religious freedom ends is the tip of the nose of the religious practitioner. If you establish your religion and part of your religion requires breaking a pre existing law, like sacrificing dogs and cats, you will be held criminaly liable. If there were no laws about sacrificing dogs and cats, and you established your religion, you sould not be held criminaly liable. Then congress shall not make any laws restricting your free practice. If Congress makes laws saying "no more new religions"...that's where the 2nd Amendment comes in.

    As with prayer in school, the non christian students can remain quiet, or recite thier own prayer. Creationism and ID taught in schools cannot be made illegal, but it is, and should remain, a State matter.

    It would be helpfull if the Christian denominations pushing Creationism and ID would stop indulging thier academic inferiority complex by creating political campaign style pseudo scientific attempts to discredit Evolution to the point where Creationism, ID, and Evolution's lack of proof equal one another...instead just teach Creationism and ID in Church and shut it....that is JMO!

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