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Thread: Politics in Religion?

  1. #1
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    Half of this is something I have come to realize about people's roles in the church, and the other is some simple speculation that I am just toying with.



    Part 1:



    It seems that a lot of people want the "church", organized body, to set a political mandate or platform that will solve all of societies problems. Or at least the communities. I think this is misinterpreting the role of a pastor (priest, rabi, whatever). Their role, to me, is to be like the resident scholar on the Word of God, and to teach us, and encourage us to teach ourselves within our personal relationships with the Lord. They are the coaches that show us how to dive into the Word, and help us apply it to our own personal situations.



    It is the laymen that have the most important role. If we, Christians, really want the world to be more Christian...it starts with us! If we bring our faith into our professions and communities, what more needs done? And by this I DO NOT MEAN, actively trying to convert people in the workplace. I mean living and spreading our faith through our actions and in our craft. If we bring hard work and dedication along with the prudence, fortitude, temperance, and justice that the Lord teaches us, then people will "know that we are Christians by our love" and then they will ask us about faith and then in the appropriate time we can talk with them directly about our faith. We need members of each profession to have their faith overflowing in their work, that is the political mandate.





    Part 2



    This is the part I am just playing around with...



    The idea of free will, to me (not an expert), is that God gave us free will because love cannot be true if it is forced. A parent would prefer that the child cleaned up his room on his own, and realizes that they will not learn the lesson unless they learn it themselves. The child has the choice, the free will, because forcing it will not ever make it genuine.



    Is this perhaps part of the reason why government mandated social programs do not work? Because a lot of people, on both ends of the giving receiving spectrum, do not really want to or appreciate the action? If we FORCE 'good will', so to speak, is it as effective?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Goldwater's Avatar
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    [quote name='Hutchinson' date='01 May 2010 - 07:24 PM' timestamp='1272767040' post='146430']

    Half of this is something I have come to realize about people's roles in the church, and the other is some simple speculation that I am just toying with.



    Part 1:



    It seems that a lot of people want the "church", organized body, to set a political mandate or platform that will solve all of societies problems. Or at least the communities. I think this is misinterpreting the role of a pastor (priest, rabi, whatever). Their role, to me, is to be like the resident scholar on the Word of God, and to teach us, and encourage us to teach ourselves within our personal relationships with the Lord. They are the coaches that show us how to dive into the Word, and help us apply it to our own personal situations.



    It is the laymen that have the most important role. If we, Christians, really want the world to be more Christian...it starts with us! If we bring our faith into our professions and communities, what more needs done? And by this I DO NOT MEAN, actively trying to convert people in the workplace. I mean living and spreading our faith through our actions and in our craft. If we bring hard work and dedication along with the prudence, fortitude, temperance, and justice that the Lord teaches us, then people will "know that we are Christians by our love" and then they will ask us about faith and then in the appropriate time we can talk with them directly about our faith. We need members of each profession to have their faith overflowing in their work, that is the political mandate.

    [/quote]

    I think that the abandonment of attempts to propagate religion would do some denominations good. Promotion has been both profitable and effective in the past and it would be a tough habit for the business end of organized religion to break.



    [quote name='Hutchinson' date='01 May 2010 - 07:24 PM' timestamp='1272767040' post='146430']Part 2



    This is the part I am just playing around with...



    The idea of free will, to me (not an expert), is that God gave us free will because love cannot be true if it is forced. A parent would prefer that the child cleaned up his room on his own, and realizes that they will not learn the lesson unless they learn it themselves. The child has the choice, the free will, because forcing it will not ever make it genuine.



    Is this perhaps part of the reason why government mandated social programs do not work? Because a lot of people, on both ends of the giving receiving spectrum, do not really want to or appreciate the action? If we FORCE 'good will', so to speak, is it as effective?

    [/quote]

    Charity is not consistant enough to be a substitute for social programs. The positive effects of many government mandated social programs go unnoticed as social programs are being scapegoated for everything bad that happens in our society by post Bush Republicans...(Tea Partiers, Glenn Beck morons, Sarah Palin, etc..)

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    [quote name='Goldwater' date='02 May 2010 - 01:23 AM' timestamp='1272777781' post='146466']

    I think that the abandonment of attempts to propagate religion would do some denominations good. Promotion has been both profitable and effective in the past and it would be a tough habit for the business end of organized religion to break.





    Charity is not consistant enough to be a substitute for social programs. The positive effects of many government mandated social programs go unnoticed as social programs are being scapegoated for everything bad that happens in our society by post Bush Republicans...(Tea Partiers, Glenn Beck morons, Sarah Palin, etc..)

    [/quote]





    Yeah I'm not advocating to get rid of social programs at all. Personally, I think that in our current state of affairs, college or just post-high school education should be almost 100% socialized, but that's for another post. I'm just speculating as to PART of why they aren't 100% affective, and it might be that not everyone is 100% on board, there is abuse or mistreatment on both sides.

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    [quote name='Hutchinson' date='01 May 2010 - 10:24 PM' timestamp='1272767040' post='146430']

    Half of this is something I have come to realize about people's roles in the church, and the other is some simple speculation that I am just toying with.



    Part 1:



    It seems that a lot of people want the "church", organized body, to set a political mandate or platform that will solve all of societies problems. Or at least the communities. I think this is misinterpreting the role of a pastor (priest, rabi, whatever). Their role, to me, is to be like the resident scholar on the Word of God, and to teach us, and encourage us to teach ourselves within our personal relationships with the Lord. They are the coaches that show us how to dive into the Word, and help us apply it to our own personal situations.



    It is the laymen that have the most important role. If we, Christians, really want the world to be more Christian...it starts with us! If we bring our faith into our professions and communities, what more needs done? And by this I DO NOT MEAN, actively trying to convert people in the workplace. I mean living and spreading our faith through our actions and in our craft. If we bring hard work and dedication along with the prudence, fortitude, temperance, and justice that the Lord teaches us, then people will "know that we are Christians by our love" and then they will ask us about faith and then in the appropriate time we can talk with them directly about our faith. We need members of each profession to have their faith overflowing in their work, that is the political mandate.





    Part 2



    This is the part I am just playing around with...



    The idea of free will, to me (not an expert), is that God gave us free will because love cannot be true if it is forced. A parent would prefer that the child cleaned up his room on his own, and realizes that they will not learn the lesson unless they learn it themselves. The child has the choice, the free will, because forcing it will not ever make it genuine.



    Is this perhaps part of the reason why government mandated social programs do not work? Because a lot of people, on both ends of the giving receiving spectrum, do not really want to or appreciate the action? If we FORCE 'good will', so to speak, is it as effective?

    [/quote]



    The entire world is inside of you.

    Me, your mother, klingons, jesus, the internet, everything that you can possibly think of is literally inside of you.



    So, what are you?

    In a sense, when it comes to figuring out what you are as a person, it is what you want. Your desires so to speak, because they are the things that actually have power.



    But, what do you want? What do people around you want? For instance, do people want food for eating, or do people want to use food to come together with other people?



    If I want to eat food for the sake of eating the food, then I confine what I want to that food. How do you reconcile that with the message of the messiah, which says at some point in the future there will be world peace and we will all be happy? Especially since happiness is defined in terms of eating food.

  5. #5
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    From
    <-- "Meme Boy"
    "Hey, you&#39;ve got your politics in my religion!"

    "Hey, you&#39;ve got your religion in my politics!"




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    [quote name=&#39;The_Bear&#39; date=&#39;02 May 2010 - 11:02 AM&#39; timestamp=&#39;1272812550&#39; post=&#39;146572&#39;]

    The entire world is inside of you.

    Me, your mother, klingons, jesus, the internet, everything that you can possibly think of is literally inside of you.



    So, what are you?

    In a sense, when it comes to figuring out what you are as a person, it is what you want. Your desires so to speak, because they are the things that actually have power.



    But, what do you want? What do people around you want? For instance, do people want food for eating, or do people want to use food to come together with other people?



    If I want to eat food for the sake of eating the food, then I confine what I want to that food. How do you reconcile that with the message of the messiah, which says at some point in the future there will be world peace and we will all be happy? Especially since happiness is defined in terms of eating food.

    [/quote]



    What I want is to serve God. Therefore I immerse myself in His word and make constant transitions from a life of sin to a life of God. Everything a Christian should do is glorify God. This does not mean I want to be God, I know that cannot be, as I am inadequate as are all men. I am saved by His grace, and I want to love Him. But in order to love Him, I must obey Him, and then His love will overflow out of me.

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    [quote name=&#39;Hutchinson&#39; date=&#39;02 May 2010 - 06:32 PM&#39; timestamp=&#39;1272839573&#39; post=&#39;146750&#39;]

    What I want is to serve God. Therefore I immerse myself in His word and make constant transitions from a life of sin to a life of God. Everything a Christian should do is glorify God. This does not mean I want to be God, I know that cannot be, as I am inadequate as are all men. I am saved by His grace, and I want to love Him. But in order to love Him, I must obey Him, and then His love will overflow out of me.

    [/quote]



    Ok. How do you do this. lol.

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    [quote name=&#39;The_Bear&#39; date=&#39;02 May 2010 - 08:33 PM&#39; timestamp=&#39;1272846839&#39; post=&#39;146783&#39;]

    Ok. How do you do this. lol.

    [/quote]



    Prayer. Fellowship. Faith.

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    [quote name=&#39;boontito&#39; date=&#39;02 May 2010 - 11:44 AM&#39; timestamp=&#39;1272815047&#39; post=&#39;146596&#39;]

    "Hey, you&#39;ve got your politics in my religion!"

    "Hey, you&#39;ve got your religion in my politics!"





    [/quote]



    how about some spam and eggs there "buttercup?"

  10. #10
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    Seattle Wa.
    [quote name=&#39;Hutchinson&#39; date=&#39;01 May 2010 - 06:24 PM&#39; timestamp=&#39;1272767040&#39; post=&#39;146430&#39;]

    Half of this is something I have come to realize about people&#39;s roles in the church, and the other is some simple speculation that I am just toying with.



    Part 1:



    It seems that a lot of people want the "church", organized body, to set a political mandate or platform that will solve all of societies problems. Or at least the communities. I think this is misinterpreting the role of a pastor (priest, rabi, whatever). Their role, to me, is to be like the resident scholar on the Word of God, and to teach us, and encourage us to teach ourselves within our personal relationships with the Lord. They are the coaches that show us how to dive into the Word, and help us apply it to our own personal situations.



    It is the laymen that have the most important role. If we, Christians, really want the world to be more Christian...it starts with us! If we bring our faith into our professions and communities, what more needs done? And by this I DO NOT MEAN, actively trying to convert people in the workplace. I mean living and spreading our faith through our actions and in our craft. If we bring hard work and dedication along with the prudence, fortitude, temperance, and justice that the Lord teaches us, then people will "know that we are Christians by our love" and then they will ask us about faith and then in the appropriate time we can talk with them directly about our faith. We need members of each profession to have their faith overflowing in their work, that is the political mandate.





    Part 2



    This is the part I am just playing around with...



    The idea of free will, to me (not an expert), is that God gave us free will because love cannot be true if it is forced. A parent would prefer that the child cleaned up his room on his own, and realizes that they will not learn the lesson unless they learn it themselves. The child has the choice, the free will, because forcing it will not ever make it genuine.



    Is this perhaps part of the reason why government mandated social programs do not work? Because a lot of people, on both ends of the giving receiving spectrum, do not really want to or appreciate the action? If we FORCE &#39;good will&#39;, so to speak, is it as effective?

    [/quote]





    This is a good post and a valid question.. Before I respond I would like to lay down the foundation with a little history.. One of the main things that the original settlers wanted here in this new nation was religous freedom.. Hence the very 1st amendment demands just that..



    What is often missed is that for the idea of religous freedom to truly exist.. The government must be free from religion.. Sure, the members of congress are allowed to go to church and be whatever religion they wish.. As can the president or the members of the Supreme court.. However, in the strictest sence, it is wrong for the government to acknowlege a day or prayer, it is wrong for members of congress or anyone else to pray on the tax payers dime.. While I realize it is a pipe dream to hope that any of this is actually enforced.. It does make my point though..



    As for social programs.. I don&#39;t believe that all of them are a failure.. I do believe that members of congress on the right side of the isle have in a way sabotaged these programs from working by consistantly defunded them.. This can also be seen at the state and local level.. There are so many programs that are simply underfunded because republicans don&#39;t want to pay for or they want to make them fail so they can say &#39;see that didn&#39;t work.&#39;



    It is truely sad that programs like the fire department have to put a boot in restaurants or have funding drives to collect donations.. What is next?? A bake sale? If your house is on fire, wouldn&#39;t you like them to come save your belongings or your life? So why does republicans constantly cut their funding? Why are our public schools defunded?? Bush&#39;s No child left behind wasn&#39;t a bad idea.. The problem is that he never funded it in any of his budgets.. Therefore it failed and really did nothing.. To make matters worse.. To pay for his tax cuts.. Education took major loses in a number of his budget proposals..



    These children are our future.. Why shouldn&#39;t we fund them to make sure they get the education that they diserve??





    Social services work fine.. We just have to make sure they are properly funded.. If you don&#39;t want to pay for them then move to another country.. Anywhere you go, you are going to pay taxes to the government that provides services to the people it governs.. There is nothing wrong with that.. That is the purpose of government..

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