Thread: The Case for a Historical Jesus

Originally Posted by Christopher

Do you speak out about other groups of religious people that have done some really bad things too with similar efforts that you do regarding Christians?

From my experience with your threads your focus is quite often on Christians or Christianity in general. Maybe I'm wrong.

I have a tough time liking fundamentalists. I'm actually interested in mysticism of all kinds. I'd love to talk to Christians about mystical rather than literal interpretations of some of Jesus' teachings.

Liberal Christians are hard to find.

Originally Posted by Divine Wind

Good Lord! You make false accusations, fabricate so-called facts then tell me that I don't have a right to question you and now you tell me to take it to PM? Why don't you lead the way?

Better yet, you can have your little Christian-hate thread without my further input. Your Karma is your own. Good luck with it.

Get lost. If you want to discuss the topic, fine. You would rather do personal attacks, not fine. Goodbye and good riddance.

Originally Posted by sky writer

I completely agree. No one can say that Christianity the religion isn't real. It exists, followers believe. The historical record is very thin on the ground for Jesus walking the earth as a man.

Theological Jesus exists, historical Jesus, much less clear.

I found this report on the History of Jesus that has all historical evidence other then the Bible. One thing you need to remember is Chrisitans were hated at the time of Jesus by the Roman government and the Jews. As Jesus was rising in power he was threatening to the Jews. They in turn convinced Pontius Pilate that Jesus was a threat to government in claiming his was "King of the Jews". They were trying to suppress the followers of Jesus after his death by having Christians put in the arenas with lions as entertainment. The thought of putting down the writings of Jesus in a book at that time was an instant death sentence. If your looking for historical evidence to prove Jesus existed here is a link. Proving the historic Jesus
The Gospel or story of Jesus was told orally for at least 40 years. Books as we know them did not exist at that time. There was scrolls written on parchment. The Old Testament was kept in churchs on a scroll and to hear it people went to church to hear it read. You have to put yourself in that time to see how things were done to get an understanding of how the history eventually developed. It was very slow paced compared to our high tech society of today where information is known all over the world withint mintues The Story Of The Storytellers - Importance Of The Oral Tradition | From Jesus To Christ | FRONTLINE | PBS

Originally Posted by Macduff

Don't sell yourself short. I've seen some of the liberal ideas you've defended. I know you can swallow a tremendous amount.
So when Josephus, a Jewish historian writes this in Antiquites Of The Jews.
Are you going to tell us that he was talking about some other Jesus?

Josephus was born years after Jesus, thus not credible.....Josephus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by angryamerican

Josephus was born years after Jesus, thus not credible.....Josephus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about a letter from Pontius Pilate written to Caesar the emperor about Jesus.

Wesley Center Online
The Wesley Center Online: The Letter Of Pontius Pilate, Which He Wrote To The Roman Emperor, Concerning Our Lord Jesus Christ




The Letter Of Pontius Pilate, Which He Wrote To The Roman Emperor, Concerning Our Lord Jesus Christ



The Letter of Pontius Pilate, Which He Wrote to the Roman Emperor, Concerning our Lord Jesus Christ

From The New Advent: Fathers of the Church CHURCH FATHERS: Home

Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar the emperor, greeting. (1)

Upon Jesus Christ, whose case I had dearly set forth to thee in my last, at length by the will of the people a bitter punishment has been inflicted, myself being in a sort unwilling and rather afraid. A man, by Hercules, so pious and strict, no age has ever had nor will have. But wonderful were the efforts of the people themselves, and the unanimity of all the scribes and chief men and elders, to crucify this ambassador of truth, notwithstanding that their own prophets, and after our manner the sibyls, warned them against it: and supernatural signs appeared while he was hanging, and, in the opinion of philosophers, threatened destruction to the whole world. His disciples are

flourishing, in their work and the regulation of their lives not belying their

master; yea, in his name most beneficent. Had I not been afraid of the rising

of a sedition among the people, who were just on the point of breaking out,

perhaps this man would still have been alive to us; although, urged more by

fidelity to thy dignity than induced by my own wishes, I did not according to

my strength resist that innocent blood free from the whole charge brought

against it, but unjustly, through the malignity of men, should be sold and

suffer, yet, as the Scriptures signify, to their own destruction. Farewell,

28th March.

Originally Posted by aboutenough

How about a letter from Pontius Pilate written to Caesar the emperor about Jesus.

Wesley Center Online
The Wesley Center Online: The Letter Of Pontius Pilate, Which He Wrote To The Roman Emperor, Concerning Our Lord Jesus Christ




The Letter Of Pontius Pilate, Which He Wrote To The Roman Emperor, Concerning Our Lord Jesus Christ



The Letter of Pontius Pilate, Which He Wrote to the Roman Emperor, Concerning our Lord Jesus Christ

From The New Advent: Fathers of the Church CHURCH FATHERS: Home

Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar the emperor, greeting. (1)

Upon Jesus Christ, whose case I had dearly set forth to thee in my last, at length by the will of the people a bitter punishment has been inflicted, myself being in a sort unwilling and rather afraid. A man, by Hercules, so pious and strict, no age has ever had nor will have. But wonderful were the efforts of the people themselves, and the unanimity of all the scribes and chief men and elders, to crucify this ambassador of truth, notwithstanding that their own prophets, and after our manner the sibyls, warned them against it: and supernatural signs appeared while he was hanging, and, in the opinion of philosophers, threatened destruction to the whole world. His disciples are

flourishing, in their work and the regulation of their lives not belying their

master; yea, in his name most beneficent. Had I not been afraid of the rising

of a sedition among the people, who were just on the point of breaking out,

perhaps this man would still have been alive to us; although, urged more by

fidelity to thy dignity than induced by my own wishes, I did not according to

my strength resist that innocent blood free from the whole charge brought

against it, but unjustly, through the malignity of men, should be sold and

suffer, yet, as the Scriptures signify, to their own destruction. Farewell,

28th March.

I have my doubts about the validity of this "letter". In the first place, the man's name was not Jesus Christ. Christ is a title and not a last name.
Why would Pilate state he was "so pious and strict, no age has ever seen nor will have"? Pilate was certainly no Christian, no follower of Jesus The Christ.

"As the scriptures signify" ?????? Did "the scriptures" even exist in the time of Pilate and Tiberius?
Nice touch.... Mach 28th of WHAT year?

Originally Posted by Hollywood

I have my doubts about the validity of this "letter". In the first place, the man's name was not Jesus Christ. Christ is a title and not a last name.
Why would Pilate state he was "so pious and strict, no age has ever seen nor will have"? Pilate was certainly no Christian, no follower of Jesus The Christ.

"As the scriptures signify" ?????? Did "the scriptures" even exist in the time of Pilate and Tiberius?
Nice touch.... Mach 28th of WHAT year?

Scriptures existed call the Old Testament which prophesied the coming of the Messiah many times. Christ translated means "King"
If you read some of my other links you will see historians from that time period refered the the letter of Pontius Pilate concerning Jesus.

Originally Posted by aboutenough

Scriptures existed call the Old Testament which prophesied the coming of the Messiah many times. Christ translated means "King"
If you read some of my other links you will see historians from that time period refered the the letter of Pontius Pilate concerning Jesus.

Yes I know what Christ means. that's why i said it was a title and not a name.
Sorry, but a letter from the Roman Gov. of Judea to the Roman Cesear would have had a full date on it.

Originally Posted by sky writer

I have a tough time liking fundamentalists. I'm actually interested in mysticism of all kinds. I'd love to talk to Christians about mystical rather than literal interpretations of some of Jesus' teachings.

Liberal Christians are hard to find.

Liberal christians are out there, they just don't feel the need to mouth off or to put others down to feel good about themselves or their faith. You will know they are christians by their love and lives, not by their preaching and judging.

I suppose you can say that they took Jesus' teachings to heart when he was asked how to pray.

.

here is a link to more of Pontius Pilates writings concerning Jesus and John the Baptist and other actions he had while in office as governor
LETTERS OF PONTIUS PILATE