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Thread: Suicide: honorable, glorious, self-murder, sick mind, rebirth, what?

  1. #1
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    Suicide: honorable, glorious, self-murder, sick mind, rebirth, what?

    Western aka Christian culture has a specific attitude about suicide, but not all cultures share that attitude.

    I always thought it odd that people who claimed to be Christian were so afraid of dying aka meeting Jesus. Obviously not all Muslims share that fear, no do some Asian cultures such as the Japanese.

    From Christian website:
    Suicide: What’s the problem?
    Now, if you’re familiar with the Bible, you may know that death is portrayed not as a friend but an enemy, resulting from the Fall of Adam (see The Fall: a cosmic catastrophe). 1 Cor 15:26 teaches us, ‘The last enemy to be destroyed is death.’ But if a person has grown up his entire life being told he’s nothing but some rearranged, energized pond scum, existing simply because of some fantastic cosmic accident, there’s no logical reason to call death an enemy. In fact, the entire concept of evolution depends on the death of the weak to keep the system going. Yet the death of a loved one still evokes nagging feelings in even the most evolutionized people of our society; feelings that ‘something just isn’t right.’
    A little bit about Seppeku "Honorable Death":
    Seppuku - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Seppuku (切腹?, "stomach-cutting") is a form of Japanese ritual suicide by disembowelment. Seppuku was originally reserved only for samurai. Part of the samurai bushido honor code, seppuku was either used voluntarily by samurai to die with honor rather than fall into the hands of their enemies (and likely suffer torture), or as a form of capital punishment for samurai who had committed serious offenses, or performed for other reasons that had brought shame to them.
    History of suicide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    In ancient times, suicide sometimes followed defeat in battle, to avoid capture and possible subsequent torture, mutilation, or enslavement by the enemy. The Caesarean assassins Brutus and Cassius, for example, killed themselves after their defeat at the battle of Philippi. Insurgent Jews died in a mass suicide at Masada in 74 CE rather than face enslavement by the Romans.
    During World War II, Japanese units would often fight to the last man rather than surrender. Towards the end of the war, the Japanese navy sent kamikaze pilots to attack Allied ships. These tactics reflect the influence of the samurai warrior culture, where seppuku was often required after a loss of honor. It is also suggested that the Japanese treated Allied POWs harshly because, in Japanese eyes, by surrendering rather than fighting to the last man, these soldiers showed they were not worthy of honorable treatment. In fact, the Japanese unit in Singapore sentenced an Australian bombing unit to death in admiration for their bravery.[citation needed]

    In modern times, suicide attacks have been used extensively by Islamist militants. However, it is important to note that suicide is strictly forbidden by Islamic law, and the Muslim clerics who organize these attacks do not regard them as suicide, but as martyrdom operations. Clerics argue the difference to be that in suicide a person kills himself out of despair, while in a martyrdom operation a person is killed as a pure act.[1]

    Spies have carried suicide pins to use when captured, partly to avoid the misery of captivity, but also to avoid being forced to disclose secrets. For the latter reason, spies may even have orders to kill themselves if captured – for example, Gary Powers had a suicide pin, but did not use it when he was captured.
    Lastly, "suicide" need not mean final death and can be a form of rebirth. In the movie "Eddie and the Cruisers", the story of Arthur Rimbaud is mentioned. Rimbaud wrote a poem titled "A Season in Hell", regarded as a pioneering example of modern Symbolist writing, then committed literary suicide by never writing again in favor of a common working life including that of being a soldier and a foreman at a rock quarry. By giving up his former life as a wild, drugged writer he found peace in everyday living.

    I think most people who commit suicide do it from mental illness, specifically depression or depression mixed with something else. My aunt was bipolar and depressed throughout her life until she shot herself in the head at age 62(?) while my uncle was outside gardening.

    Others may do it for a cause, deluded or not. Some do it for honorable reasons or, as in the case of accused sodomist/rapist Army Brigadier General Jeffrey A. Sinclair, if guilty, should do in order to save his family and service the dishonor of a trial.

    Although I've had some tough times in my life and suicide was considered a plausible option, I also considered the idea that "If I'm willing to end my life, why not just leave? Why not head for Australia and begin a new life there as a common laborer? What have I to lose? If I really want to die, I can do it anytime". This is a form of the rebirth example.

    So the questions are "Is suicide a personal choice? Can it be honorable or for reasons other than a result of poor mental health? Can suicide be justifiable, whether actual, figuratively, literally or some other form than physical?"

  2. #2
    Senior Member whitedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Wind View Post
    Western aka Christian culture has a specific attitude about suicide, but not all cultures share that attitude.

    I always thought it odd that people who claimed to be Christian were so afraid of dying aka meeting Jesus. Obviously not all Muslims share that fear, no do some Asian cultures such as the Japanese.

    From Christian website:
    Suicide: What’s the problem?


    A little bit about Seppeku "Honorable Death":
    Seppuku - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    History of suicide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Lastly, "suicide" need not mean final death and can be a form of rebirth. In the movie "Eddie and the Cruisers", the story of Arthur Rimbaud is mentioned. Rimbaud wrote a poem titled "A Season in Hell", regarded as a pioneering example of modern Symbolist writing, then committed literary suicide by never writing again in favor of a common working life including that of being a soldier and a foreman at a rock quarry. By giving up his former life as a wild, drugged writer he found peace in everyday living.

    I think most people who commit suicide do it from mental illness, specifically depression or depression mixed with something else. My aunt was bipolar and depressed throughout her life until she shot herself in the head at age 62(?) while my uncle was outside gardening.

    Others may do it for a cause, deluded or not. Some do it for honorable reasons or, as in the case of accused sodomist/rapist Army Brigadier General Jeffrey A. Sinclair, if guilty, should do in order to save his family and service the dishonor of a trial.

    Although I've had some tough times in my life and suicide was considered a plausible option, I also considered the idea that "If I'm willing to end my life, why not just leave? Why not head for Australia and begin a new life there as a common laborer? What have I to lose? If I really want to die, I can do it anytime". This is a form of the rebirth example.

    So the questions are "Is suicide a personal choice? Can it be honorable or for reasons other than a result of poor mental health? Can suicide be justifiable, whether actual, figuratively, literally or some other form than physical?"
    it can be justified if the pain of living , physical or mental, is too much too bear. in other cases, honourable? nope.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Wind View Post
    Western aka Christian culture has a specific attitude about suicide, but not all cultures share that attitude.

    I always thought it odd that people who claimed to be Christian were so afraid of dying aka meeting Jesus. Obviously not all Muslims share that fear, no do some Asian cultures such as the Japanese.

    From Christian website:
    Suicide: What’s the problem?


    A little bit about Seppeku "Honorable Death":
    Seppuku - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    History of suicide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Lastly, "suicide" need not mean final death and can be a form of rebirth. In the movie "Eddie and the Cruisers", the story of Arthur Rimbaud is mentioned. Rimbaud wrote a poem titled "A Season in Hell", regarded as a pioneering example of modern Symbolist writing, then committed literary suicide by never writing again in favor of a common working life including that of being a soldier and a foreman at a rock quarry. By giving up his former life as a wild, drugged writer he found peace in everyday living.

    I think most people who commit suicide do it from mental illness, specifically depression or depression mixed with something else. My aunt was bipolar and depressed throughout her life until she shot herself in the head at age 62(?) while my uncle was outside gardening.

    Others may do it for a cause, deluded or not. Some do it for honorable reasons or, as in the case of accused sodomist/rapist Army Brigadier General Jeffrey A. Sinclair, if guilty, should do in order to save his family and service the dishonor of a trial.

    Although I've had some tough times in my life and suicide was considered a plausible option, I also considered the idea that "If I'm willing to end my life, why not just leave? Why not head for Australia and begin a new life there as a common laborer? What have I to lose? If I really want to die, I can do it anytime". This is a form of the rebirth example.

    So the questions are "Is suicide a personal choice? Can it be honorable or for reasons other than a result of poor mental health? Can suicide be justifiable, whether actual, figuratively, literally or some other form than physical?"
    This is merely base in my point of view.
    Is suicide a personal choice? Yes.

    Can it be honorable or for reasons other than a result of poor mental health? No, it can't be honorable but most people who commit suicide is due to poor mental health.

    Can suicide be justifiable, whether actual, figuratively, literally or some other form than physical? It can't be justifiable simply because we don't have license to take ones life or even our life.
    Last edited by removals; 5th October 2012 at 03:55 AM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member LokiGragg's Avatar
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    Suicide is a personal choice. As well people have the right to do it, anything less is a nanny state. I find it strange that a lot of people argue individualism except when it comes to suicide, then the person in question must be stopped. The taboo surrounding suicide is outdated in that it was only a serious problem for the human race 3000 years ago. Not so much now with a population of 7 billion people.

    Edit: I forgot, value judgments (whether or not suicide on honorable, justifiable, etc) are irrelevant unless we're the ones planning on doing it.
    Last edited by LokiGragg; 12th October 2012 at 11:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiGragg View Post
    Suicide is a personal choice. As well people have the right to do it, anything less is a nanny state. I find it strange that a lot of people argue individualism except when it comes to suicide, then the person in question must be stopped. The taboo surrounding suicide is outdated in that it was only a serious problem for the human race 3000 years ago. Not so much now with a population of 7 billion people.

    Edit: I forgot, value judgments (whether or not suicide on honorable, justifiable, etc) are irrelevant unless we're the ones planning on doing it.

    Suicide is usually so totally unfair to those left behind. All we can have is an opinion, and my opinion is you are supposed to deal with what life deals you until the end.

    That said, I am not at the end, hopefully, and have no idea at all how I will take it when time catches up.

    Never actually thought I would get this old, to tell the truth.

    To each his own, I have told my doc each time they do a biopsy on something, that if it is bad he has one job, provide the dope to deal with it.

    I have know several suicides, none solved a thing, just created much bigger problems for those left behind with no say in the matter.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiGragg View Post
    Suicide is a personal choice. As well people have the right to do it, anything less is a nanny state. I find it strange that a lot of people argue individualism except when it comes to suicide, then the person in question must be stopped. The taboo surrounding suicide is outdated in that it was only a serious problem for the human race 3000 years ago. Not so much now with a population of 7 billion people.

    Edit: I forgot, value judgments (whether or not suicide on honorable, justifiable, etc) are irrelevant unless we're the ones planning on doing it.



    SANE people can commit suicide, it is the insane that might be helped that must be prevented from committing suicide.

    Suicide is NOT a good thing in most cases.

  7. #7
    Senior Member whitedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Wind View Post
    Western aka Christian culture has a specific attitude about suicide, but not all cultures share that attitude.

    I always thought it odd that people who claimed to be Christian were so afraid of dying aka meeting Jesus. Obviously not all Muslims share that fear, no do some Asian cultures such as the Japanese.

    From Christian website:
    Suicide: What’s the problem?


    A little bit about Seppeku "Honorable Death":
    Seppuku - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    History of suicide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Lastly, "suicide" need not mean final death and can be a form of rebirth. In the movie "Eddie and the Cruisers", the story of Arthur Rimbaud is mentioned. Rimbaud wrote a poem titled "A Season in Hell", regarded as a pioneering example of modern Symbolist writing, then committed literary suicide by never writing again in favor of a common working life including that of being a soldier and a foreman at a rock quarry. By giving up his former life as a wild, drugged writer he found peace in everyday living.

    I think most people who commit suicide do it from mental illness, specifically depression or depression mixed with something else. My aunt was bipolar and depressed throughout her life until she shot herself in the head at age 62(?) while my uncle was outside gardening.

    Others may do it for a cause, deluded or not. Some do it for honorable reasons or, as in the case of accused sodomist/rapist Army Brigadier General Jeffrey A. Sinclair, if guilty, should do in order to save his family and service the dishonor of a trial.

    Although I've had some tough times in my life and suicide was considered a plausible option, I also considered the idea that "If I'm willing to end my life, why not just leave? Why not head for Australia and begin a new life there as a common laborer? What have I to lose? If I really want to die, I can do it anytime". This is a form of the rebirth example.

    So the questions are "Is suicide a personal choice? Can it be honorable or for reasons other than a result of poor mental health? Can suicide be justifiable, whether actual, figuratively, literally or some other form than physical?"
    yep. lou gehrigs etc

  8. #8
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    Suicide is a sin.

    Why is Suicide a Sin?

  9. #9
    Senior Member whitedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparty View Post
    Suicide is a sin.

    Why is Suicide a Sin?
    says who?

  10. #10
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    This just took place recently near where I live: Cyberbullying: Outpouring of grief over teen's suicide (with video)

    No, I don't think suicide is honorable, at least not in most cases. Especially with children...

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