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Thread: The New Witch Hunt-From Salem 1692 to the Hysteria Over Gay Rights and Marriage Today

  1. #21
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    With all due respect, as a witch, I have a problem with equating political opposition to gay rights with the Burning Times. Thousands of men, women, and children were put to the stake, stoned, or drowned, all for no other reason than their religious beliefs. Even now, there are Christian sects that, like the Holocaust, wish to mitigate, and deny that these atrocities never happened.

    I don't mean to minimize the plight of homosexuals in modern society, but to equate their plight with the burning times would be rather like equating it with Hitler's ovens. I'm pretty sure that Jews would probably take offense to that analogy.
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  2. #22
    Voice of Reason ProgressivePatriot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    With all due respect, as a witch, I have a problem with equating political opposition to gay rights with the Burning Times. Thousands of men, women, and children were put to the stake, stoned, or drowned, all for no other reason than their religious beliefs. Even now, there are Christian sects that, like the Holocaust, wish to mitigate, and deny that these atrocities never happened.

    I don't mean to minimize the plight of homosexuals in modern society, but to equate their plight with the burning times would be rather like equating it with Hitler's ovens. I'm pretty sure that Jews would probably take offense to that analogy.
    It is not my intention to offend anyone who themselves has been the victim of horrendous atrocities. I am not saying that the crimes against gays are equal to or as horrific to what anyone else was subjected to. My point is that there are those who are engaged in a witch hunt against gays, and many would indeed, if given a chance, subject them to incarceration and even death. For same, the same underlying attitudes and dynamics are at work. Listen to the rhetoric. Look at what is happening in Africa.

  3. #23
    Veteran Member PACE's Avatar
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    Gay people are now enjoying the rights you have had for centuries, they are catching up, same goes for people of color.

    Stop the discrimination against the discrimination and maybe, just maybe, what you wish for will come true.
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  4. #24
    Established Member soupnazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgressivePatriot View Post
    Ask anyone what they think happened in Salem Mass. In 1692 and they are likely to say something to the effect that some unsophisticated settlers, given to religious fervor and superstition during a harsh winter and desolate conditions, became obsessed with evil and targeted those who they saw as a threat. Ask those same people if such a thing could happen today, and they are likely to say “of course not!”

    However, I submit to you that it is in fact happening again, only this time gays-not witches are the target. Consider:

    In Salem witches were viewed as being possessed by evil that must be exorcised. The religious right of today see gays has being sick and in need of a cure.

    The members of the Bay Colony saw witches as a threat to their Christian beliefs and even a threat to the continued existence of Christianity. Today, the religious right speaks passionately about their religious freedom being violated by gay rights and the criminalization of Christianity.

    The settlers were driven by ignorance and fear of the unknown, and the need for a scapegoat to blame their problems on witches-which included a small pox outbreak and the perception of religious persecution. Today, we can see these same forces at work among the virulently religious right who have blamed gays for everything from natural disasters, and disease to the risen of liberal secularism.

    Yes, the colonists were beset by real and present dangers- Native American’s , pirates, economic difficulties and political tensions with England which added to the stress which in turn contributed to the hysteria and the need to blame someone. We see the same dynamic playing out today with the fear of Islam and ISIS, uncertainty about the economy and the fact that there are people in power who do not reflect their values.

    The settlers were so threatened by those who they deemed witches that they imprisoned and murdered them. Today, most on the right do not advocate imprisonment, burning at the stake, or drowning. However, there are those who do lament the decriminalization of homosexuality and some who have in fact advocated the imprisonment and execution of gays.

    As in 1692, there is an identifiable triggering condition now. Then, it was a difficult winter living in isolation. Now, it is the rapid rise of the acceptance of gay people, and the speed at which they have gained legal rights culminating in marriage equality


    If anyone wishes to question the voracity of this analogy, I invite you to first review a brief history of the Salem witch trials:





    Now, let’s have a closer look at what is happening today. Enter Mike Huckabee:



    Clearly, he is demonizing and scapegoating gays. Here is more from a supporter of another presidential contender who apparently has no problem with her extreme and bizarre views



    Now let’s talk about the World Congress of Families which met recently in Salt Lake City….




    More Salem style vilification and scapegoating. And the myths born of ignorance and fear, and the lies that speak to the deep seated animosity towards gays continues. Numbers 3, 4, 6, and 9 are especially egregious and represent the type of rhetoric that can lead to physical violence:



    And then there is the endless drum beat of fear mongering about how gay rights is antithetical to Christianity and that it will destroy the freedom of religion, and religion itself:


    The American Family Association is one of the most divisive and virulent organizations that is exploiting Christianity in there anti-gay crusade:


    This is an extremely disconcerting development and represents a new low for those working against equality. As a last resort, the anti-equality forces have claimed victimhood and are, in fact blaming the victims. It is born of fear, prejudice and an increasing sense of desperation, and is attempting to hijack Christianity to stem the tide of progress in the area of human rights and evolving standards of decency. They purport to speak for the entire Christian faith, but in reality, represent a small, paranoid and reactionary fringe.

    It is also disturbing to realize the depth of the divisiveness that has developed between these progressive rights organizations and a certain segment of the Christian community, a divisiveness that really does not need to be. The claims that the advance of gay rights and secularism an affront to Christians and impinges on religious freedom is without merit. While there are those that actually believe that is the case, others are knowingly promoting a false idea of religious liberty for their own purposes.

    And let’s not forget the American evangelical, including some politicians who have traveled to Africa and Russia to promote those countries antigay agendas, which have included proposals to jail and even execute gays. Even right here in the U. S., in California to be exact, a ballot initiative to allow for the summary execution of gays was proposed.

    It all comes down to this…..there are some of us who are not better, not smarter, and no more rational than the inhabitants of the Bay Colony, and if they were to achieve the control of government , Salem could indeed happen again.
    Yes gays wish to claim victim status like anyone else.

    The problem is it does not work.

    Gays are protected by the same laws as the rest of us and have the same rights as anyone else and this has been true for a long time. I did not pay much attention but I heard some studies state gays have a higher income per capita and are better off financially.

    Some people do not like gays or homosexuality but that is not a crime and creates no victims. Some christian idiots even think gayness can be cured but no one is forced to try and be cured.

    A closer analogy to the witch hunts is young men being ruined and harmed on the basis of rape or sexual assault accusations without any evidence. Especially on college campuses.

  5. #25
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soupnazi View Post
    Yes gays wish to claim victim status like anyone else.

    The problem is it does not work.

    Gays are protected by the same laws as the rest of us and have the same rights as anyone else and this has been true for a long time. I did not pay much attention but I heard some studies state gays have a higher income per capita and are better off financially.

    Some people do not like gays or homosexuality but that is not a crime and creates no victims. Some christian idiots even think gayness can be cured but no one is forced to try and be cured.

    A closer analogy to the witch hunts is young men being ruined and harmed on the basis of rape or sexual assault accusations without any evidence. Especially on college campuses.
    Males are more likely to be sexually assaulted than to be falsely accused of sexual assault.
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  6. #26
    Veteran Member PACE's Avatar
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    Or maybe those 11,000 children who were raped by Catholic priests (5400 of them) from the years of 1958 to 2009? eh?

    Maybe they were persecuted because they were "children" who were in the presence of pedophilic clergy?

    We can play this game all day long, so which group has suffered the most persecution in this country simply because of "who they are"?

    I can name two.

    Regards
    Pace
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  7. #27
    Established Member soupnazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Males are more likely to be sexually assaulted than to be falsely accused of sexual assault.
    MAybe so they are also as likely to be falsely accused as they are to commit a crime

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    With all due respect, as a witch, I have a problem with equating political opposition to gay rights with the Burning Times. Thousands of men, women, and children were put to the stake, stoned, or drowned, all for no other reason than their religious beliefs. Even now, there are Christian sects that, like the Holocaust, wish to mitigate, and deny that these atrocities never happened.

    I don't mean to minimize the plight of homosexuals in modern society, but to equate their plight with the burning times would be rather like equating it with Hitler's ovens. I'm pretty sure that Jews would probably take offense to that analogy.
    Did you read the 4th post?

  9. #29
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    The New Witch Hunt-From Salem 1692 to the Hysteria Over Gay Rights and Marria...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Do you happen to have the information on it, I would love to try and squire a copy for myself to add to my library.
    Doubt it... This was back around 1999... I don't think that eBay keeps records of bids that far - especially when one didn't win the auction.
    Last edited by Djinn; 1st November 2015 at 12:51 PM.

  10. #30
    Voice of Reason ProgressivePatriot's Avatar
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    FRC: Trump Must ‘Ferret Out’ State Department’s Pro-LGBT Officials

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/f...gbt-officials/
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