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Thread: Why Does Obamacare Suck So Badly?

  1. #11
    Little Old Lady Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metheron View Post
    I wondered too this morning, for all the good it did some people, how many did it hurt?
    Call them greedy or whatever you want, but it matters, especially when looking for support.
    Also I think the lack of price controls(and I don't have that solution) also makes it a negative.

    I would hate to see it go. It's a first step. But the lack of Democrats offering proposals to change and the persistent call by Republicans to just get rid of it is frustrating and tells me we won't see real change anytime soon.
    Obamacare is the OPPOSITE of universal care and made things much worse.
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  2. #12
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    Good points. I'm at a conference and will try to come back to this later with some ideas/thoughts on the matter.
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  3. #13
    Little Old Lady Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpicturetaker12 View Post
    I like mine.

    My customer told me "it saved his life". He had a brain tumor and didn't know about it till he got his OBAMACARE and went in for his first 'well visit' and they found it. Maybe he is a liberal and made that story up. Sure why not?
    Obamacare did not save his life. His doctor did. Universal care would have also paid for his annual physical.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post


    It is my opinion that Obamacare is a horrible, horrible law that should never have seen the light of day. Yet I support universal care -- in fact, I consider it to be essential to our future. So how come I don't see Obamacare as a kinder, gentler version of universal care, "good enough" at least as a stop gap measure?

    When you get sick, you need a doctor. Not a lawyer, insurance agent, government official or politician. Universal care is the "marriage" of patients and health care providers, so that there is no bureaucrat off in the distance saying "you need to fill out this paperwork before you can be treated". The only prerequisite to care under universal care is that you must be human.

    The US spends at least TWICE what any other nation does on health care, and the excess is pure profit to the private insurance companies, for profit hospitals and doctors, and of course, Big Pharma. This is an annual expense of $2 TRILLION -- not to pay for health care, but to create profit for the insurance companies, etc. Yet even then, we could not assure each human in the country would get care, or that many others would not be bankrupted by the copays, deductibles and exclusions in their policies which transferred the costs back to them.

    As bad as the old system was, it had certain advantages. When you make a claim under any health insurance policy, it creates a claim which the insurance company records in a file it maintains on your health, as well as a claim the insurance company adjudicates and pays. Your medical data is full of sensitive information most of us would not want the government to know. That data was not on deposit in one single databank; no one could ask "which Americans have Hepatitis C and where are they?" and get an accurate answer. Now, of course, the government and anyone else with access to the huge databank Obamacare created can ask this and anything else about our health they'd like to know. It is extremely naive to think that the government has access to that data but will never abuse that power.

    Under the old system, a policy cost was adjudicated by your state's department of insurance. Private insurers had to submit claims paid data, etc. and they could not make an excessive profit (in theory). Under Obamacare, while this is still true in theory, the insurance companies can complicate their rate filings with risks and experience that are specious at best. Despite the "affordability" claims that have been made for Obamacare, most Americans are paying more for health insurance and getting less coverage. The subsidies many receive from the government helps to conceal this, and remember, by forcing healthy young adults to buy insurance, the costs to the rest of us were supposed to be lower. And yet, they went up!

    Universal care doesn't simply assure me that I will get care. I'm not especially interested in seeing any doctor for any reason, period. But it does assure me that every human in the country can get care. This means I have no more toothless kindergartners, no more young adults crippled with rickets, no more elderly afflicted with dementia who are neglected to death. It should pay for the full scope of mental health care Americans need, as well as vision, dental, hearing, rehab, etc.

    This matters because the health of my community is a quality of life issue for me. Physically and mentally healthy adults are better able to do productive work. Healthy teenagers are less violent and less prone to death by accident or homicide. Etc.

    But Obamacare did not provide this comprehensive blanket of care. There are still many millions who are uninsured, and many, many more who are underinsured. It took the $2 TRILLION in health care profits and INCREASED it. Nothing was done to expand care for mental health, dental, etc. Nothing was done to control the cost of health care.

    Under universal care, the cost of a hospital stay or a prescription drug could be controlled as insurance premium costs are now -- show us your expenses, and we will pay a price that allows you to meet those costs. As it stands, US citizens pay the R & D costs on drugs for the entire planet, because every other first world nation has universal care and sets the price of drugs far below what Americans are forced to pay. It is insanity to allow Big Pharma to charge whatever it likes, with no accountability at all to the public for their price structure. We allow them to charge "what the market will bear" for drugs that are vital to keep us alive, and we have all seen the unspeakable greed they have employed in gouging us.

    So, to sum up, Obamacare:

    1. Created more obscence, excessive profit for Big Pharma and the private insurance companies.

    2. Constitutes a massive invasion of our privacy.

    3. Solved absolutely no problems we face now as to health care, including costs and access.

    4. Is nothing more than smoke and mirrors, concealing the GINORMOUS corporate welfare going on.

    We could pay for universal care with HALF or less what every insured American pays now for insurance and copays, etc. Whether you feel this is a constitutional issue, the fact remains that if we do not nationalize the health care insurance industry, we are none of us going to be able to receive care once the Boomers begin to sicken and die, in another decade or two.

    If you have ever had to fight with an insurance company to get them to authorize care for your family, or been billed for services you feel the insurance company should have covered, or been struck at the GINORMOUS difference in price between name brand and generic drugs, etc., you have had a glimpse of the extraordinary greed that we allow to harm us today.

    Will we get universal care? If we can get Congress critters that are not owned by the insurance industry, absolutely. Campaign finance reform -- repealing Citizens United -- is the key. But if we do not get it, we would be FAR better off to repeal Obamacare, close the databank it created and go back to what we had before. The abuses like pre-exisiting conditions and lifetime caps could be easily prohibited by law. We don't need to invite the government into our medicine chests in order to achieve those modest goals.

    There is no more time to dither, to move towards universal care in tiny increments. This country is about to have a population that is 50% elderly -- and that changes everything, because old people are sicker and they do not work. Allowing Americans to think that Obamacare advances their interests in a meaningful way is the most deceitful, destructive lie that has been told to us from the white house in my lifetime.

    Your thoughts?
    It sucks because the conservatives in congress were too stupid to get their heads out of their ass and pass a real universal care plan.
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  5. #15
    Little Old Lady Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howey View Post
    Oh bullfuckingshit!

    It's been five years and we have yet to see a viable proposal from the right. What we have seen is over fifty attempts to repeal obamacare with nothing to reach it.

    The stupidity of the right is mind-boggling.
    Which politician -- apart from Bernie Sanders -- do you see banging on about universal care? In either party? Just how easily do you think the insurance companies and Big Pharma will surrender a profit of $2 TRILLION per year?
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
    It sucks because the conservatives in congress were too stupid to get their heads out of their ass and pass a real universal care plan.
    They could have shown more courage, yes, but the bottom line is we can never have real progress on health care as long as the insurance companies and Big Pharma own all the Congress critters.
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  7. #17
    Little Old Lady Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmike View Post
    Good points. I'm at a conference and will try to come back to this later with some ideas/thoughts on the matter.
    LOL; tell them you are needed on the internet and put them on hold.
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  8. #18
    letting go Amelia's Avatar
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    For me the reason the ACA is bad is because of how it was born. A procedural and philosophical problem which unsurprisingly produced bad law. Those things you say about it are true, but how did we get to that point?

    Republicans were offering nothing to help with healthcare problems, so Democrats were given a huge mandate to go to Washington and show that government could be trusted to help them with that.

    Then the first drafts of the ACA immediately violated Obama's campaign promises. So at that point Democrats were obligated by their own mandate and principles to go out and explain clearly what they were doing -- explain to people like me what the public option was and why it was so vital and what the consequences would be for not having it. They didn't do that.

    They took a paternal attitude -- you'll like it once you see what is in it -- you'll like it once you understand what we are doing -- we know you're anxious and we promise to deal with your sources of anxiety after we get this thing passed.

    The more they went down that path, the more they disengaged from the public and gave power to the insurance companies, and the worse the law became.

    They ended up with a law which was so fragile that it desperately needed a Democrat majority to stay around to keep it from falling apart at the seams, yet the process that they went about in creating this fragile law was so non-trust-inspiring that they lost the Democratic majority that they needed.


    So for me, that's how we got here. A huge opportunity for Democrats to show the public that government could be trusted. A huge opportunity to do good health reform, not to mention immigration reform and investing in infrastructure. Republicans left Democrats such a huge opening to show that they believed in government of the people, by the people, for the people. And Democrats blew it by not trusting their own principles and not trusting the people to get on board and help if Democrats had good law and made a case for it.
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  9. #19
    Little Old Lady Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    For me the reason the ACA is bad is because of how it was born. A procedural and philosophical problem which unsurprisingly produced bad law. Those things you say about it are true, but how did we get to that point?

    Republicans were offering nothing to help with healthcare problems, so Democrats were given a huge mandate to go to Washington and show that government could be trusted to help them with that.

    Then the first drafts of the ACA immediately violated Obama's campaign promises. So at that point Democrats were obligated by their own mandate and principles to go out and explain clearly what they were doing -- explain to people like me what the public option was and why it was so vital and what the consequences would be for not having it. They didn't do that.

    They took a paternal attitude -- you'll like it once you see what is in it -- you'll like it once you understand what we are doing -- we know you're anxious and we promise to deal with your sources of anxiety after we get this thing passed.

    The more they went down that path, the more they disengaged from the public and gave power to the insurance companies, and the worse the law became.

    They ended up with a law which was so fragile that it desperately needed a Democrat majority to stay around to keep it from falling apart at the seams, yet the process that they went about in creating this fragile law was so non-trust-inspiring that they lost the Democratic majority that they needed.


    So for me, that's how we got here. A huge opportunity for Democrats to show the public that government could be trusted. A huge opportunity to do good health reform, not to mention immigration reform and investing in infrastructure. Republicans left Democrats such a huge opening to show that they believed in government of the people, by the people, for the people. And Democrats blew it by not trusting their own principles and not trusting the people to get on board and help if Democrats had good law and made a case for it.
    Yup. It's a case study on how money destroys democracy, among other things.

    I remind the reader, Hillary tried this on once before. In the first days of her husband's term she held secret metings with her "friends" to plot how best to rearrange wealth in this country and call it "health care reform". Obamacare is indistinguishable from Hillarycare. And Hillary already knows how she wants to screw the American public on health care next.

    Obamacare is Hillarycare 2.0 | The Daily Caller
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  10. #20
    letting go Amelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Yup. It's a case study on how money destroys democracy, among other things.

    I remind the reader, Hillary tried this on once before. In the first days of her husband's term she held secret metings with her "friends" to plot how best to rearrange wealth in this country and call it "health care reform". Obamacare is indistinguishable from Hillarycare. And Hillary already knows how she wants to screw the American public on health care next.

    Obamacare is Hillarycare 2.0 | The Daily Caller

    I'm not attributing ill will to Hillary. Or to Obama. I totally believe they meant well.


    I'm just saying that if even the people who supposedly believe the most in Democratic/democratic principles don't put their actions where their words were, then that doesn't speak well for those principles. And it stopped them from doing something really good.

    I am a liberal. The reason I was a Republican all those years is because of cultural tradition and a lack of trust for government. Government can mean well, but unintended consequences abound. Bureaucracy has personally injured me. And I grew to prefer gridlock. So I need to have really good reason before I respond positively to a government official who says, "Trust me."

    Democrats had a HUMONGOUS chance to make the case for liberal policies and more centralized governmental control of resources beyond the national defense, and they messed. up. so. badly.
    Last edited by Amelia; 18th January 2016 at 10:44 AM.
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