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Thread: Why Does Obamacare Suck So Badly?

  1. #21
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    I'm not attributing ill will to Hillary. Or to Obama. I totally believe they meant well.


    I'm just saying that if even the people who supposedly believe the most in Democratic/democratic principles don't put their actions where their words were, then that doesn't speak well for those principles. And it stopped them from doing something really good.

    I am a liberal. The reason I was a Republican all those years is because of cultural tradition and a lack of trust for government. Government can mean well, but unintended consequences abound. Bureaucracy has personally injured me. And I grew to prefer gridlock. So I need to have really good reason before I respond positively to a government official who says, "Trust me."

    Democrats had a HUMONGOUS chance to make the case for liberal policies and more centralized governmental control of resources beyond the national defense, and they messed. up. so. badly.
    When the legislation you pass creates billions of new dollars of profit for friends of yours, I generally call that corrupt. When it does so by injuring the constituency you swore to serve, I call that a betrayal.

    The data processing bill alone on Obamacare runs into the BILLIONS of dollars. Some very fortunate "friend of government" is being unjustly enriched via that "work".

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...0b5b8ce26d4a22

  2. #22
    Proud deplorable Bigot Outdraw Poker Champion, Colinks :Swap Champion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howey View Post
    Oh bullfuckingshit!

    It's been five years and we have yet to see a viable proposal from the right. What we have seen is over fifty attempts to repeal obamacare with nothing to reach it.

    The stupidity of the right is mind-boggling.
    You are either an idiot or don't know how to comprehend what you read.

    But alas, that I guess would be a different thread.

  3. #23
    Proud deplorable Bigot Outdraw Poker Champion, Colinks :Swap Champion
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    Quote Originally Posted by April15 View Post
    Maybe if the repukes offered up some constructive changes dems could agree. But after 62 bills to reject the PPACA I doubt the repukes would do anything of the kind.
    I'm assuming you people aren't reading the whole thing.

    Yea, I agree, since I said that too.

  4. #24
    Senior Member beatleboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Obamacare is the OPPOSITE of universal care and made things much worse.

    My insurance premium didn't go up, actually went down a bit, my cousin got his IRS return docked for not having insurance, he went to the Fed Site, got some for a premium he can afford, and is happy as a clam that he can now go to the doctor. I haven't run into anyone that is outraged with their healthcare, my doctor is also satisfied. I don't see the big stink over it, now i'm not a business person and do not know the business side of it much, so maybe that's where the beef is, I haven't seen that first hand. I will say that i'm sick of hearing Republicans bitch and repeal over and over without an once of an idea put forth. Until then, every Republican should just STFU til they can offer a substitute.

  5. #25
    gingerly perusing PH Yeti 8 Jungle Swing Champion, YetiSports 4 - Albatross Overload Champion, YetiSports7 - Snowboard FreeRide Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion boontito's Avatar
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    I support Obamacare because I appreciate Big Picture Politics.

  6. #26
    told you so Amelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    When the legislation you pass creates billions of new dollars of profit for friends of yours, I generally call that corrupt. When it does so by injuring the constituency you swore to serve, I call that a betrayal.

    The data processing bill alone on Obamacare runs into the BILLIONS of dollars. Some very fortunate "friend of government" is being unjustly enriched via that "work".

    Forbes Welcome


    I don't think they intentionally enriched any cronies.

    That was just a predictable result of a cynical process which cut out the people and said, "this is the best we can do with the companies we're working with [since we're not going to do the work necessary to bring the people on board with a good plan]".

    There were dishonesty and lies by omission, but those were necessitated in their well-meaning heads by their paternalism. They didn't trust or respect us. That excused a multiplicity of fabrications and deflections.

  7. #27
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    And please note another interesting coincidence: Both Hillarycare and Obamacare were developed under a veil of secrecy that was anathema to American democracy, and outside the national defense area, had never been seen before. IMO, that secrecy was necessary to stop anyone from explaining to the American public just how badly they were about to get screwed.

    It's this amoral "anything goes; the ends justify the means" attitude that Hillary has towards the value of democracy in this country that offends me the most about her. She wasn't elected ANYTHING when she tried that crap in 1992, and she had the unmitigated gall to use force and threats of force to exclude reporters and others who wanted to know what was happening from attending the meetings where Hillarycare was developed. TO THIS DAY, we still do not know who she permitted to be there.

    Obama refused to allow Congress critters to even read the bill before it was passed. That alone should have voided Obamacare as lacking the necessary legislative acts to become a law, but our SCOTUS did a maneuver the Flying Wallendas would have loved in order to find Obamacare constitutional as a tax.
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  8. #28
    told you so Amelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beatleboy View Post
    My insurance premium didn't go up, actually went down a bit, my cousin got his IRS return docked for not having insurance, he went to the Fed Site, got some for a premium he can afford, and is happy as a clam that he can now go to the doctor. I haven't run into anyone that is outraged with their healthcare, my doctor is also satisfied. I don't see the big stink over it, now i'm not a business person and do not know the business side of it much, so maybe that's where the beef is, I haven't seen that first hand. I will say that i'm sick of hearing Republicans bitch and repeal over and over without an once of an idea put forth. Until then, every Republican should just STFU til they can offer a substitute.
    Republicans' lack of a solution is why Democrats were given the wheel.

    Just because Republicans would have done nothing, that doesn't justify Democrats creating bad law.

    Democrats creating bad law and being unresponsive to the anxieties of voters is why Democrats lost the House in 2010, lost millions of voters in 2012 though they still pulled off a White House win, and lost the Senate in 2014.
    Last edited by Amelia; 18th January 2016 at 11:54 AM.
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  9. #29
    told you so Amelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    And please note another interesting coincidence: Both Hillarycare and Obamacare were developed under a veil of secrecy that was anathema to American democracy, and outside the national defense area, had never been seen before. IMO, that secrecy was necessary to stop anyone from explaining to the American public just how badly they were about to get screwed.

    It's this amoral "anything goes; the ends justify the means" attitude that Hillary has towards the value of democracy in this country that offends me the most about her. She wasn't elected ANYTHING when she tried that crap in 1992, and she had the unmitigated gall to use force and threats of force to exclude reporters and others who wanted to know what was happening from attending the meetings where Hillarycare was developed. TO THIS DAY, we still do not know who she permitted to be there.

    Obama refused to allow Congress critters to even read the bill before it was passed. That alone should have voided Obamacare as lacking the necessary legislative acts to become a law, but our SCOTUS did a maneuver the Flying Wallendas would have loved in order to find Obamacare constitutional as a tax.

    I thank much of this. But of course Congress was theoretically able to read the bill before it was passed. Obama didn't stop anyone from doing that. The hijinks they played with the bill should have stopped it from becoming law, but people had been letting other hijinks like that go on and made Congress think they could get away with it. And indeed they showed they could get away with it -- in the short run -- but in winning that battle they lost a much greater one. With the help of a SCOTUS decision which helped shut the people out of the process. And reinforced the lack of trust the public has in government.

    It was all very undemocratic, and very depressing. But that's the government we have right now. And will continue to have unless we do something big to bring power back to the people.
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  10. #30
    Above the FRAY Friday13's Avatar
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    Both Hillarycare and Obamacare were developed under a veil of secrecy that was anathema to American democracy
    And the touted republiCon 'replacement' for ACA is so secret that even THEY don't know what it is...

    Obama refused to allow Congress critters to even read the bill before it was passed.
    There were republiCons on the committee that 'developed' it...it's why we don't have a 'public option' (universal health care)...
    Thanks from Panzareta

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