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Thread: Why Does Obamacare Suck So Badly?

  1. #61
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    Why are you asking me to name something good Obama has done?

    Go talk to someone else about that.
    Okay what improvments to Obamacare has ANY democrat proposed, (other then to cut revenue collection from big corporations)

  2. #62
    told you so Amelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    Okay what improvments to Obamacare has ANY democrat proposed, (other then to cut revenue collection from big corporations)
    Seriously ... why are you asking me this stuff?

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    You just made the list! Macduff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    Howey seems to have summarised it. The ACA is a badly wounded survivor of a repug mauling, it could have been so much better.
    Why wasn't it? Democrats had all the votes they needed when it was passed. A majority in the House and a near super majority in the Senate.
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  4. #64
    told you so Amelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macduff View Post
    Why wasn't it? Democrats had all the votes they needed when it was passed. A majority in the House and a near super majority in the Senate.
    I know what answer many Democrats give for why they didn't take a stand for good law and why the more the public objected, the worse they made their draft law.

    It's the fault of the Republicans and "turncoats" like Lieberman that Obama and other Democrats lied and disrespected the public and used backdoor tricks to upend insurance for millions without getting the public option much less anything close to universal coverage.
    Last edited by Amelia; 18th January 2016 at 02:48 PM.
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  5. #65
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    Seriously ... why are you asking me this stuff?
    Because you said HE (I took He, was Obama) was working to improve ACA.. if Obama was not the he, (never mind)

    Since you said he was working to improve the ACA, name some of the proposals he has sent to congress to make improvements.

    2nd person it could be is Bernie Sanders, if that is the case what has he proposed to improve ACA.

  6. #66
    Veteran Member PACE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post


    It is my opinion that Obamacare is a horrible, horrible law that should never have seen the light of day. Yet I support universal care -- in fact, I consider it to be essential to our future. So how come I don't see Obamacare as a kinder, gentler version of universal care, "good enough" at least as a stop gap measure?

    When you get sick, you need a doctor. Not a lawyer, insurance agent, government official or politician. Universal care is the "marriage" of patients and health care providers, so that there is no bureaucrat off in the distance saying "you need to fill out this paperwork before you can be treated". The only prerequisite to care under universal care is that you must be human.

    The US spends at least TWICE what any other nation does on health care, and the excess is pure profit to the private insurance companies, for profit hospitals and doctors, and of course, Big Pharma. This is an annual expense of $2 TRILLION -- not to pay for health care, but to create profit for the insurance companies, etc. Yet even then, we could not assure each human in the country would get care, or that many others would not be bankrupted by the copays, deductibles and exclusions in their policies which transferred the costs back to them.

    As bad as the old system was, it had certain advantages. When you make a claim under any health insurance policy, it creates a claim which the insurance company records in a file it maintains on your health, as well as a claim the insurance company adjudicates and pays. Your medical data is full of sensitive information most of us would not want the government to know. That data was not on deposit in one single databank; no one could ask "which Americans have Hepatitis C and where are they?" and get an accurate answer. Now, of course, the government and anyone else with access to the huge databank Obamacare created can ask this and anything else about our health they'd like to know. It is extremely naive to think that the government has access to that data but will never abuse that power.

    Under the old system, a policy cost was adjudicated by your state's department of insurance. Private insurers had to submit claims paid data, etc. and they could not make an excessive profit (in theory). Under Obamacare, while this is still true in theory, the insurance companies can complicate their rate filings with risks and experience that are specious at best. Despite the "affordability" claims that have been made for Obamacare, most Americans are paying more for health insurance and getting less coverage. The subsidies many receive from the government helps to conceal this, and remember, by forcing healthy young adults to buy insurance, the costs to the rest of us were supposed to be lower. And yet, they went up!

    Universal care doesn't simply assure me that I will get care. I'm not especially interested in seeing any doctor for any reason, period. But it does assure me that every human in the country can get care. This means I have no more toothless kindergartners, no more young adults crippled with rickets, no more elderly afflicted with dementia who are neglected to death. It should pay for the full scope of mental health care Americans need, as well as vision, dental, hearing, rehab, etc.

    This matters because the health of my community is a quality of life issue for me. Physically and mentally healthy adults are better able to do productive work. Healthy teenagers are less violent and less prone to death by accident or homicide. Etc.

    But Obamacare did not provide this comprehensive blanket of care. There are still many millions who are uninsured, and many, many more who are underinsured. It took the $2 TRILLION in health care profits and INCREASED it. Nothing was done to expand care for mental health, dental, etc. Nothing was done to control the cost of health care.

    Under universal care, the cost of a hospital stay or a prescription drug could be controlled as insurance premium costs are now -- show us your expenses, and we will pay a price that allows you to meet those costs. As it stands, US citizens pay the R & D costs on drugs for the entire planet, because every other first world nation has universal care and sets the price of drugs far below what Americans are forced to pay. It is insanity to allow Big Pharma to charge whatever it likes, with no accountability at all to the public for their price structure. We allow them to charge "what the market will bear" for drugs that are vital to keep us alive, and we have all seen the unspeakable greed they have employed in gouging us.

    So, to sum up, Obamacare:

    1. Created more obscence, excessive profit for Big Pharma and the private insurance companies.

    2. Constitutes a massive invasion of our privacy.

    3. Solved absolutely no problems we face now as to health care, including costs and access.

    4. Is nothing more than smoke and mirrors, concealing the GINORMOUS corporate welfare going on.

    We could pay for universal care with HALF or less what every insured American pays now for insurance and copays, etc. Whether you feel this is a constitutional issue, the fact remains that if we do not nationalize the health care insurance industry, we are none of us going to be able to receive care once the Boomers begin to sicken and die, in another decade or two.

    If you have ever had to fight with an insurance company to get them to authorize care for your family, or been billed for services you feel the insurance company should have covered, or been struck at the GINORMOUS difference in price between name brand and generic drugs, etc., you have had a glimpse of the extraordinary greed that we allow to harm us today.

    Will we get universal care? If we can get Congress critters that are not owned by the insurance industry, absolutely. Campaign finance reform -- repealing Citizens United -- is the key. But if we do not get it, we would be FAR better off to repeal Obamacare, close the databank it created and go back to what we had before. The abuses like pre-exisiting conditions and lifetime caps could be easily prohibited by law. We don't need to invite the government into our medicine chests in order to achieve those modest goals.

    There is no more time to dither, to move towards universal care in tiny increments. This country is about to have a population that is 50% elderly -- and that changes everything, because old people are sicker and they do not work. Allowing Americans to think that Obamacare advances their interests in a meaningful way is the most deceitful, destructive lie that has been told to us from the white house in my lifetime.

    Your thoughts?
    And before 44 million people went to the emergency room with septic infections from simple bladder infections, Obamacare isn't perfect, but the separate issue on health care insurance costs, drug costs, excessive diagnostics not required, but mandated for amortization of capital at hospitals, incorrect diagnosis due to limitations in provider's products, inconsistencies in providers products, the influence of corporate overseer in group plans, the continuing competition between hospitals providing the same care the same specialities within a twenty five mile radius of each other, the profiling of patients, and the cost models used in diagnosing versus preventation care, the unholy alliance between doctors, pharma and big box pharmacies, the continuing brain drain of good quality doctors from within our own medical academia,

    All those things, have nothing, not a damn thing to do with a plan that guarantees health care, even with it's corruptness and it's imperfections, that are outside of the realm of this goal,,,, to those who need it the most;

    The poor.

  7. #67
    told you so Amelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    Because you said HE (I took He, was Obama) was working to improve ACA.. if Obama was not the he, (never mind)

    Since you said he was working to improve the ACA, name some of the proposals he has sent to congress to make improvements.

    2nd person it could be is Bernie Sanders, if that is the case what has he proposed to improve ACA.

    My "he" is Bernie Sanders.

    He has approached it many times, from many angles, trying to get more people to have access.

    For example: Bernie Sanders S. 1782 | Healthcare-NOW!

    Of course his efforts so far have failed. It will take a revolution ... which is what he is trying to start. If he can upset Hillary for the Democratic nomination he will be well on his way.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macduff View Post
    Why wasn't it? Democrats had all the votes they needed when it was passed. A majority in the House and a near super majority in the Senate.
    It would have never gotten to that point without significant capitulation by Democrats just to get Republicans to vote on it. Plus, you said the magic words: "near super majority".

    Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
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  9. #69
    Veteran Member PACE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    Single payer is what we should do, but I know of no one who could get that through Congress without a landslide of historic proportions for the Democrats in the next two election cycles.
    Exactly right, and remember when Medicaire was introduced, They were all over it like a wet blanket,,, it was the end of democracy according to Bedtime for Bonzo

  10. #70
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    Insurance for me is a must have, due to medical conditions.
    On the other hand, when the government tells me how I must spend the money that I earn, they have just created an opponent.

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