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Thread: Both Donald And Hillary Are Racists

  1. #11
    "Mr. Original". the watchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    As fun as it would be to call a Democrat racist after all the times Democrats have called me and mine racist, I can't go there with her.

    No more than the usual unconscious vestigial racial preferences of the typical privileged white person benefiting from a society with systemic racial bias.

    She supports the death penalty, which I consider a racist part of our judicial system, but I don't consider people racist for supporting it.

    "Racist" is not a word to use casually. And I won't join the people who do so.
    yeah, there's this whole movement on the right to have the word "racist" all but banned ( unless they decide to use it). It appears to be remnants from the "Southern Strategy". Sure, there are liberals who misuse it. But, that's not exclusive to "the left". Generally speaking it's misused all the time. It sure would be nice if people could leave partisan politics out of it completely and approach each situation on it's individual merit. Frankly speaking, this entire country could use a lesson in cultural sensitivity.

  2. #12
    We choose both. Amelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the watchman View Post
    yeah, there's this whole movement on the right to have the word "racist" all but banned ( unless they decide to use it). It appears to be remnants from the "Southern Strategy". Sure, there are liberals who misuse it. But, that's not exclusive to "the left". Generally speaking it's misused all the time. It sure would be nice if people could leave partisan politics out of it completely and approach each situation on it's individual merit. Frankly speaking, this entire country could use a lesson in cultural sensitivity.

    Are you criticizing me for not calling Hillary racist?

  3. #13
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    How on earth could someone construed Watchman's post to be personal?
    It clearly reads as if he is commenting of the apparent mentality of the OP in general.
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  4. #14
    "Mr. Original". the watchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    Are you criticizing me for not calling Hillary racist?
    more with the way you framed it.

  5. #15
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the watchman View Post
    yeah, there's this whole movement on the right to have the word "racist" all but banned ( unless they decide to use it). It appears to be remnants from the "Southern Strategy". Sure, there are liberals who misuse it. But, that's not exclusive to "the left". Generally speaking it's misused all the time. It sure would be nice if people could leave partisan politics out of it completely and approach each situation on it's individual merit. Frankly speaking, this entire country could use a lesson in cultural sensitivity.
    Let me expand on this.

    I think Trump is full-on KKK racist. That he literally hates some people, notably "Arabs" and "Mexicans", for no reason other than the way they look. That he would -- and has -- gratuitously harmed whomever he hated most ATM, all his adult life.

    Hillary, OTOH, is innocent of the KKK version racism. But she is power hungry. This is a woman who has been planning to be president for FORTY YEARS. She has done, and will do, anything to attain and retain that power -- not a particularly mentally healthy human being.

    In this quest for power, Hillary has used racist stereotypes, exacerbated the suffering of those already dealt injuries for racist purposes, and frayed the fabric of our society. I find her conduct racist, regardless of her nonracial, "the ends justify the means", apparent motives.

    If you recall, Reagan used racist stereotypes in campaigning for and carrying out the duties of his office, notably the "welfare queen". Bush I, whom I generally admire, was excoriated for using the "black criminal" stereotype in his campaign materials. (Willie Horton.)

    But it was Billary who revived these hideous stereotypes to achieve political goals. Chief among all the examples of this is the vicious, indefensible "end welfare as we know it" legislation. The Congressional Record is packed full of the Clintons and Congress critters bloviating about how "the poor need motivation to get off welfare" and believe me, for "poor", hear "black and brown Americans". To watch DEMOCRATS reinforce these stereotypes was just horrible, but even worse was that Billary never discussed the ACTUAL causes of persistent poverty. The new law created NO real access to a secure middle class life for any poor person, but did create GREAT wealth for various "friends of government" who ran "workfare" programs that were flat-out, do-nothing embezzlement schemes.

    For a longer explanation of this 1990's welfare legislation, see this thread:

    The Clintons' War On The Poor

    I can also find various articles by economists and other pundits to support the POV that this law was INTENDED to severely harm the poor.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...s-done/376797/

    I can point out other examples of this as to the MASSIVE number of criminal minimum sentencing laws that were passed during Billary's terms, always raising the spectre of the "violent black criminal", even though far too many also reached nonviolent crimes.

    "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was an abomination. Billary could have ended discrimination completely against GLBT people in the military via executive order. There was no "crisis" in GLBT people being discharged (as compared to years before), and the misery that inflicted is enormous. Obviously, not every GLBT military person is a POC, but I include it here because it is an example of Billary exploiting a vulnerable people, American citizens, for political gain. And to suggest that they ":could not have known" is bullshit, especially as when they watched the impacts destroy lives, they did nothing to ameliorate the suffering THEY caused.

    The class warfare Billary engaged in -- and will again, if elected -- fell hardest on the poor, a disproportionate number of whom are POC. The deregulation of our capitalistic economy, which led to the Great Recession, occurred at Billary's behest and they KNEW what the impact was because the dot com bubble occurred on their watch, as well as the junk bond scandals. Most American families went into the 1990's owing only secured loans for the home and cars, and most came out, at the end of that decade, as wage slaves with enormous credit card debt, home equity loan and -- possibly worst of all -- serious losses from gambling on the stock market over the internet. These changes all required enabling legislation, which Billary championed.

    In the same way, the NAFTA-related American jobs losses are all on Billary -- and until Bernie shamed her, she was a cheerleader for TPP (an Asian version of NAFTA). Again, it is not as if Billary did not know the treaty was SEVERELY harmful to America -- we had a 5 day riot in Seattle at the World Trade Organization about globalization of capital. Naturally, Billary SAID he was on the side of "the kids", but persisted in pursuing NAFTA until it was passed. To this day, Hillary counts it as a success!

    So, I would say Hillary has and will continue to harm most POC. To me it matters naught that she does so to gain power by serving her masters in the 0.01%, rather than because she hates certain ethnicities.

    Call it what you like, IMO, it is no better than Trump's. They both use POC as scapegoats, and they both try to reach their goals by stepping on the poor, too many of whom are POC.
    Last edited by Madeline; 5th June 2016 at 05:20 AM.

  6. #16
    We choose both. Amelia's Avatar
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    Don't Ask, Don't Tell paved the way for the present change. If Bill had said it was okay for gays to serve openly, he would not have gotten a second term. Don't Ask, Don't Tell was a "live and let live" measure which the public could accept. It helped pave the way for greater tolerance.


    Things have changed since the 90's. Both left and right see the need for the kinds of criminal justice reform which will undo much of the 1990's legislation. Hillary won't try to go back to that. She'll try to expand access to college for the poor. She'll try to help reverse the flow of capital out of our country. Even though our status quo still has racial bias, and even though she'll preserve the status quo, that doesn't make her racist.

    So you can argue that other people have better policy ideas which would do more for POC, but it is not cool to call her and her conventional ideas racist.

    Much harm has been done with the misuse of that term.

  7. #17
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    The blacks were crying our for something to be done about rampant crime too. Are they racist against their own race?
    Crime was sky high back then. And almost everyone was for the Crime bill. But as usual, it was carried too far and many blacks were incarcerated for minor crimes. That is now changing, but to call the first Black President and his wife racists is a lie.

    Made up hyperbole by desperate Republicans who can not deal with the real racist they selected.

  8. #18
    Penny for your thots Macduff's Avatar
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    Flashback...
    Earlier today Billy Shaheen, Hillary Clinton's New Hampshire co-chair and husband of former N.H. governor Jeanne Shaheen, was thinking out loud about electability. He made these comments about Barack Obama, who just climbed into a tie with Clinton in N.H. in a CNN poll that had Obama down 20 points in September:

    "The Republicans are not going to give up without a fight ... and one of the things they're certainly going to jump on is [Obama's] drug use."

    Okay, fair enough. In making the case that his candidate is more electable, it is reasonable for Shaheen to point out that Obama has spoken openly about using marijuana and cocaine in his early years. That is something the GOP will likely jump on, after all. Shaheen continued:

    "It'll be, 'When was the last time? Did you ever give drugs to anyone? Did you sell them to anyone?'... There are so many openings for Republican dirty tricks. It's hard to overcome."
    Clinton Supporter Raises Idea of Young Obama Dealing Drugs | Mother Jones

    This was disingenuous on a few levels. The phony concern was one. And the weaselly way it was presented. Republicans didn't imply Obama was a drug dealer, the Clinton campaign did. And they weren't acting out of the kindness of their hearts.
    And it follows the Clinton 2008 pattern of having surrogates say something outrageous with the campaign then disavowing (wink) afterwards. As if that unrings the bell.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Loki's Avatar
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    Lol. Everyone is racist whether they admit to themselves or not. We seek to live in majority same. The ones we cannot respect are those who pride themselves on it. Pretty difficult to do in the USA melting pot.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    I don't think she is racist. There were blacks who were also in favor of the crime reform. (Since you mention Don't Ask, Don't Tell, that was actually pretty bold, with good intentions. Brave of Bill to make that one of the first things he did in office. Sad unforeseen consequences, but good intentions.)

    So, there were foreseeable negative effects of the crime and welfare legislation, and I don't think that was bold or brave at all, but I also don't think the passage of that legislation in the 90's speaks to whether Hillary is racist.

    And I don't think she is racist.
    Agreed. DADT was the reform of the time regarding homosexuals and serving in the military. It was the first thing Clinton did in 1993 and puzzled many who felt he was wasting political capital. Later, DADT became a failed policy at addressing the issue of gays in the service.

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