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Thread: Bernie's Popularity Soars -- Except With Democrats

  1. #151
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the watchman View Post
    exactly. Sanders isn't even a Democrat. Yet, his supporters showed up at the convention protesting HRC. I liked what Bernie had to say and supported him being in the race. That was until it was clear he wasn't going to win. Yet, instead of conceding , he stayed in the race in order to force concessions out of HRC. He's not even a Democrat. Yet , he demanded that the DNC shift it's agenda further to the left. Holding them hostage until the did. By the time he finally endorse HRC he had created such a big rift in the party it was next to impossible for HRC to unite it. At that point I knew he was in it for his own self-promotion The way his doing his "victory lap" town halls is just proof of that.
    When was it clear he wasn't going to win? He would have beaten Trump.

    This is not about worshipping Bernie. Not even for Bernie. It's about rededicating to the progressive ideas that were supposedly Democratic party platforms since WW II, but were abandoned in the 1990's because the party decided that winning mattered most, so they moved to the right.

  2. #152
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by splansing View Post
    You could do that. Or, you could put the insurance companies back into a competitive marketplace. Strip away their anti-trust exemption, break them up where they are so massive they violate anti-trust laws just by their existence, and prosecute them if they collude. The one who figures out how to get the best outcomes with the most efficient processes will succeed. The one who does well working with doctors and hospitals to make the care itself will succeed. The ones who manage to provide insurance for less money without compromising service will win. Right now there is no market force exerting any downward pressure on the market except for the regulations of a bought-and-paid-for government.

    That would work, I think.

    However, given that bought-and-paid-for government, I would never trust them to properly regulate the market to ensure it was competitive. So I think you're right.
    Anti-trust laws do not apply to insurance companies, at least not as to forming monopolies. They couldn't, and this hasn't been a serious problem because the actual insurer for any policy has had to be a corporation formed only for that state. There are 50 BC/BS, under the conglomerate umbrella. It's also not a problem because no insurance company can charge whatever it likes; it has to use a rate schedule approved by that state's department of insurance.

    There is some aggregation in health insurance that arguably contributes to the crap health care system we have, but really,m the problem is they simply don't have the market power to negotiate lower prices for services or goods, and they have no incentive to ration care.

  3. #153
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    That is so unrealistic. Obama wasn't able to get anything passed once the Republicans had control of the House. But somehow Bernie Sanders would have.

    Yeah, right.
    No, obviously not. But if the GOP loses one or both chambers of Congress in 2018, along with a few state legislatures, the possibilty exists.

  4. #154
    "Mr. Original". the watchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    When was it clear he wasn't going to win? He would have beaten Trump.

    This is not about worshipping Bernie. Not even for Bernie. It's about rededicating to the progressive ideas that were supposedly Democratic party platforms since WW II, but were abandoned in the 1990's because the party decided that winning mattered most, so they moved to the right.
    don't know about any of that. I usually just vote for the person that I think is most qualified. Frankly, I think Trump would have beat Bernie. Sanders never articulated a campaign strategy to beat Trump. Sanders was never vetted to run a general election campaign. Dems know him and what he's about. But, the general population doesn't really know him. People seem to forget that Trump didn't just beat Hillary Clinton. He beat 15 Republican candidates before that. Sanders couldn't even get past the primary. Hillary had flaws. But so does Sanders.

  5. #155
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the watchman View Post
    don't know about any of that. I usually just vote for the person that I think is most qualified. Frankly, I think Trump would have beat Bernie. Sanders never articulated a campaign strategy to beat Trump. Sanders was never vetted to run a general election campaign. Dems know him and what he's about. But, the general population doesn't really know him. People seem to forget that Trump didn't just beat Hillary Clinton. He beat 15 Republican candidates before that. Sanders couldn't even get past the primary. Hillary had flaws. But so does Sanders.
    I think Sanders is going to run again in 2020 for some of those reasons you cited. Outside of New England he wasn't well known and Trump ate his opponents alive by ridicule. Some now think he may have ended all their presidential aspirations just by the nicknames and embarrassment. Sanders if anyone notices, is keeping his movement alive and concentrating on visiting areas Trump won. Winning them over so to speak.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Anti-trust laws do not apply to insurance companies, at least not as to forming monopolies. They couldn't, and this hasn't been a serious problem because the actual insurer for any policy has had to be a corporation formed only for that state. There are 50 BC/BS, under the conglomerate umbrella. It's also not a problem because no insurance company can charge whatever it likes; it has to use a rate schedule approved by that state's department of insurance.

    There is some aggregation in health insurance that arguably contributes to the crap health care system we have, but really,m the problem is they simply don't have the market power to negotiate lower prices for services or goods, and they have no incentive to ration care.
    Somehow I'm not reassured knowing that insurance companies can charge whatever the state government says they can. Sounds like a recipe for corruption. In this state, they literally get a walk on a 10% increase every year...they have to lobby if they want to go past that. But...10%?? Really? That's already insanity. My premiums are going to double in less than 10 years? And some years the premiums jump by 20%. I recall one year they went up by 22%. Instantly I made about $3,000 less annually, no warning, no choice in the matter, just fuck you, pay me more. And the next year, more of the same.

    Meanwhile, their profits are limited...by percentage. Every incentive they have is to make things cost MORE.

    The system is broken. The regulation is a sick joke. We need UHC.
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  7. #157
    "Mr. Original". the watchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I think Sanders is going to run again in 2020 for some of those reasons you cited. Outside of New England he wasn't well known and Trump ate his opponents alive by ridicule. Some now think he may have ended all their presidential aspirations just by the nicknames and embarrassment. Sanders if anyone notices, is keeping his movement alive and concentrating on visiting areas Trump won. Winning them over so to speak.
    if he runs again I hope it isn't as a Democrat. As far as I'm concerned he burn that bridge down.

  8. #158
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the watchman View Post
    if he runs again I hope it isn't as a Democrat. As far as I'm concerned he burn that bridge down.
    Assume he is testing the waters to see how that works out. He could choose to run as an indie.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Assume he is testing the waters to see how that works out. He could choose to run as an indie.
    Most important for now is that he connects with people. Whether it's him or somebody else, we have to get people aware of what is going on, where exactly we keep getting hit the hardest, and put some pressure on at the polls to clean some of this mess up.

    If he were to get onto the ticket as a Democrat, I don't see why he shouldn't. The parties do not have a platform handed down from the gods and if you don't like it then piss off. Oh, and if you vote for anyone not in these two parties you're wasting your vote. What kind of idiotic shit is that? Either he runs as some other party, and it's pointless to vote for him, or he runs as a Democrat, and he doesn't belong here and should fuck off??

    I feel like I get killed here by partisans on either side. I don't understand party loyalty. The party can kiss MY ass, not the other way around. If the leadership wants to win elections, they are obliged to understand the electorate, or try to manipulate it. But if people are unhappy enough with the way things are done, they are going to get harder to manipulate. If the party becomes irrelevant because its leadership lacks vision and cannot keep itself relevant, so be it.
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  10. #160
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Assume he is testing the waters to see how that works out. He could choose to run as an indie.
    Not successfully. I would like Bernie to start kingmaking.

    81 years old is just not feasible unless he has something like 80% voter support by fall 2020.

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