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Thread: Bernie's Popularity Soars -- Except With Democrats

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Who cares, at this point? We need universal care NOW. Democrats COULD deliver it by 2018, if they organized and pushed.
    First Democrats have to be convinced that it is possible, and reasonable.

    Democrats have been persuaded that universal health care is just too much to ask for, so while the majority of american want it, we're afraid to go for it.

    I think its the result of millions of dollars worth of propaganda spanning decades.
    Thanks from bajisima, Pragmatist and Panzareta

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I favor single-payer, but we're not CLOSE to being politically ready for such a thing. It will require a serious breakdown in our health care system--the kind of thing that affects everyone, including people like me who have great health care through work. Only when people like me see their health care threatened will we be ready for such a drastic change.

    Fortunately (well, unfortunately for me), it looks like the GOP may deliver just such a breakdown. They won't be able to pass their alternative, but they WILL be able to eliminate all the taxes that support Obamacare and remove the threat of fines for those who don't participate. That will result in the death spiral they've wanted for so long and may drag the rest of us down with it, since the money to pay for all those ER visits will have to come from somewhere.

    See my sig line.
    They could work next on changing the law to give hospitals the freedom they need to turn patients away.

  3. #13
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I favor single-payer, but we're not CLOSE to being politically ready for such a thing. It will require a serious breakdown in our health care system--the kind of thing that affects everyone, including people like me who have great health care through work. Only when people like me see their health care threatened will we be ready for such a drastic change.

    Fortunately (well, unfortunately for me), it looks like the GOP may deliver just such a breakdown. They won't be able to pass their alternative, but they WILL be able to eliminate all the taxes that support Obamacare and remove the threat of fines for those who don't participate. That will result in the death spiral they've wanted for so long and may drag the rest of us down with it, since the money to pay for all those ER visits will have to come from somewhere.
    So we need to worry about the corporations and the insurers instead of moving towards UHC? I never understood that argument. I have been on this forum since 2012 and almost every left leaning person here has claimed they want UHC. Yet when Bernie ran, about half of them said we need to consider how many people work for the insurance companies and what impact that will have. Never in my life did I ever think I would hear that.
    Thanks from labrea and Madeline

  4. #14
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I know it's the Guardian, but your link is odd. It claims that the Dem party is more unpopular than Trump or the GOP "right now," but when I go to the link, I get just a portion of a poll (it starts at question #6) that doesn't identify any information about the poll--not even the dates when it was taken. It shows Trump's popular as -2, which is about one-third his actual negative number right now. It also puts the 'right track/wrong track' number in positive territory, where it hasn't been in a decade.

    I'm sure the denizens of the Guardian would like to pull the country way further left, but I admire the Dems for not doing so.
    You overlook the fact that the Democrats have lost the White House, both chambers of Congress and almost every statehouse.



    The legislatures of most of the states have also turned Republican.


  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    So we need to worry about the corporations and the insurers instead of moving towards UHC? I never understood that argument. I have been on this forum since 2012 and almost every left leaning person here has claimed they want UHC. Yet when Bernie ran, about half of them said we need to consider how many people work for the insurance companies and what impact that will have. Never in my life did I ever think I would hear that.
    It surprised me as well.
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  6. #16
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I favor single-payer, but we're not CLOSE to being politically ready for such a thing. It will require a serious breakdown in our health care system--the kind of thing that affects everyone, including people like me who have great health care through work. Only when people like me see their health care threatened will we be ready for such a drastic change.

    Fortunately (well, unfortunately for me), it looks like the GOP may deliver just such a breakdown. They won't be able to pass their alternative, but they WILL be able to eliminate all the taxes that support Obamacare and remove the threat of fines for those who don't participate. That will result in the death spiral they've wanted for so long and may drag the rest of us down with it, since the money to pay for all those ER visits will have to come from somewhere.

    See my sig line.
    Okay, but I see no reason for leading Democrats to still be defending Obamacare. They should seize the moment and demand universal care.
    Thanks from bajisima

  7. #17
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    So we need to worry about the corporations and the insurers instead of moving towards UHC? I never understood that argument. I have been on this forum since 2012 and almost every left leaning person here has claimed they want UHC. Yet when Bernie ran, about half of them said we need to consider how many people work for the insurance companies and what impact that will have. Never in my life did I ever think I would hear that.
    Me neither. Sounds arch-conservative, to my ear.
    Thanks from bajisima

  8. #18
    Junior Member Zephyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Who cares, at this point? We need universal care NOW. Democrats COULD deliver it by 2018, if they organized and pushed.
    I don't think the current Democrats will be very effective. Keeping Mrs Pelosi on board in leadership was a very bad decision for a party that needs to substantially change and evolve.
    Thanks from Madeline

  9. #19
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    First Democrats have to be convinced that it is possible, and reasonable.

    Democrats have been persuaded that universal health care is just too much to ask for, so while the majority of american want it, we're afraid to go for it.

    I think its the result of millions of dollars worth of propaganda spanning decades.
    I honestly don't think a lot of dems really want it. They have been backing off now for awhile. Bernie really scared them off or something I don't know. The same people that pushed for it back in 2009 prior to the ACA passing, now suddenly think we need to wait.
    Thanks from Madeline

  10. #20
    told you so Amelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I know it's the Guardian, but your link is odd. It claims that the Dem party is more unpopular than Trump or the GOP "right now," but when I go to the link, I get just a portion of a poll (it starts at question #6) that doesn't identify any information about the poll--not even the dates when it was taken. It shows Trump's popular as -2, which is about one-third his actual negative number right now. It also puts the 'right track/wrong track' number in positive territory, where it hasn't been in a decade.

    I'm sure the denizens of the Guardian would like to pull the country way further left, but I admire the Dems for not doing so.
    Bernie, Planned Parenthood and Obamacare -- what the Fox says
    Thanks from bajisima and Madeline

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