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Thread: Bernie's Popularity Soars -- Except With Democrats

  1. #21
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Veteran Member Dr Sampson Simpson's Avatar
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    It's not surprising, Democrats are in bed with the rich as well. THey just aren't as blatant about it. They probably don't want universal healthcare either becuase their rich donors are greedy scum
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I honestly don't think a lot of dems really want it. They have been backing off now for awhile. Bernie really scared them off or something I don't know. The same people that pushed for it back in 2009 prior to the ACA passing, now suddenly think we need to wait.
    This is a good article:

    There are two common points of confusion about single payer. The first is about the definition of “single,” which, as you might know, is “one.” And the “one” in this case almost always means “the government.” It means everyone gives up their Platinum Elite Status Cigna Extra Miles plan that they get at a steep discount from their work. Instead, they go on the same plan everyone else has. This is a key element of Sanders’s proposal, as described on his site: “Under Bernie’s plan, Americans will benefit from the freedom and security that comes with finally separating health insurance from employment.”

    The thing is, half of Americans get their insurance through work, and they don't all hate it. A government plan might not be any worse, but it will require a leap into the unknown.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...-means/471045/
    So it seems we have an approach/avoidance conflict going on. The closer we get to the goal (universal health insurance) stronger the feeling of avoidance is.

    This is actually good news. It means the approach side of the conflict is winning out.
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  4. #24
    Junior Member Zephyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I will read that when I get a new break from work and respond again. That looks interesting to me and thank you for sharing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Sampson Simpson View Post
    It's not surprising, Democrats are in bed with the rich as well. THey just aren't as blatant about it. They probably don't want universal healthcare either becuase their rich donors are greedy scum
    Or is a case of "the old devil being better than the new devil" just because its known.
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    They could work next on changing the law to give hospitals the freedom they need to turn patients away.
    Just as we have don't have the political will for single-payer, we also don't have the political will to see people die on the streets in front of hospitals.

  7. #27
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    This is a good article:



    So it seems we have an approach/avoidance conflict going on. The closer we get to the goal (universal health insurance) stronger the feeling of avoidance is.

    This is actually good news. It means the approach side of the conflict is winning out.
    One of the construction guys at work said once when we were getting all our politics out at lunch, that he also felt unions and their members were more tepid about it than they wanted known. He said unions are already taking a hit with right to work and such and that if UHC went into effect a lot of the younger union guys that already complain about the dues would use it as an excuse to get rid of union dues which could bring down unions. Unions negotiate decent healthcare and lately that's been attracting a lot of millennials since healthcare is expensive and union jobs normally have Cadillac plans. Thought that an interesting perspective.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    So we need to worry about the corporations and the insurers instead of moving towards UHC? I never understood that argument. I have been on this forum since 2012 and almost every left leaning person here has claimed they want UHC. Yet when Bernie ran, about half of them said we need to consider how many people work for the insurance companies and what impact that will have. Never in my life did I ever think I would hear that.
    I'm not framing the question that way, and I don't think most Americans think about the question in that frame. Americans are allergic to "socialism" or at least to policies that seem too socialistic. They react very badly to things they perceive as socialistic (though there are lots of socialistic policies that Americans love).

    Voters don't have to have abide by logic in their political calculus, and often don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    You overlook the fact that the Democrats have lost the White House, both chambers of Congress and almost every statehouse. [/IMG]
    I'm not overlooking anything. I'm questioning the poll.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Okay, but I see no reason for leading Democrats to still be defending Obamacare. They should seize the moment and demand universal care.
    I think most mainline Democrats think that would be like shooting themselves in the head. Here's the problem: just because something is logical and makes sense isn't going make the majority support it. Most people make their decisions based on a pretty blunt, emotional calculus. They are easily swayed by the careful use of language. To get to UHC, we'll either need:

    1. A health care disaster that is felt deeply by a majority of Americans that justifies a drastic change, or

    2. A means of framing the issue so it doesn't seem like we're doing something un-American. Right now, UHC sounds un-American to far too many of our countrymen and women. If you can figure out a way to associate it with baseball and apple pie.....

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