Page 4 of 32 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 320
Thanks Tree259Thanks

Thread: Bernie's Popularity Soars -- Except With Democrats

  1. #31
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    37,601
    Thanks
    22273

    From
    New Hampshire
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I'm not framing the question that way, and I don't think most Americans think about the question in that frame. Americans are allergic to "socialism" or at least to policies that seem too socialistic. They react very badly to things they perceive as socialistic (though there are lots of socialistic policies that Americans love).

    Voters don't have to have abide by logic in their political calculus, and often don't.
    But that's not true for those under a certain age. They don't remember the Soviet Union or that era where socialism meant "bad." Now they travel more, and have friends overseas and can see what their lives are like. They don't have the same hang ups older people do. The oldest millennials will be 40 in 2020, and I think they will expect a party that is more left and if it isn't, they could become apathetic or vote third party.
    Thanks from Madeline

  2. #32
    vulgar? Rasselas's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    57,311
    Thanks
    29777

    From
    in my head
    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    But that's not true for those under a certain age. They don't remember the Soviet Union or that era where socialism meant "bad." Now they travel more, and have friends overseas and can see what their lives are like. They don't have the same hang ups older people do. The oldest millennials will be 40 in 2020, and I think they will expect a party that is more left and if it isn't, they could become apathetic or vote third party.
    When they make up a working majority of voters, let me know. As it is, older people aren't dying so quickly as they used to, and younger people still don't vote in the numbers they need to punch their own weight. The very things that make people more likely to vote (owning a home and having children) are the same things that make them wary of policies that share the wealth widely. Meanwhile, Republicans are busy trying to make it harder for those very people (people who don't own their homes or have children) to vote.

    This is a long-term struggle.

  3. #33
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    37,568
    Thanks
    27217

    From
    Englewood,Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I told this story before but I have a good friend who for as long as I have known her, has talked forever about having universal healthcare, free state college tuition, govt funded daycare etc. Her daughter is also great friends with mine and they both became huge Bernie fans early last year when he decided to run. Campaigned for him, donated you name it. Of course she figured her mom would support Bernie, but she found out she didn't. It really upset her daughter a lot. After the election, they kind of stopped speaking because the daughter blamed the mom for not supporting Bernie as she felt he would have beaten Trump. At one point I asked the mom why she didn't like Bernie because he stood for everything she had wanted. She just said the time wasn't ready, it would take time to have those things. I just couldn't understand her. Why when she could have voted for what she had always wanted, she chickened out? Never made sense to me. I guess maybe some feel he pushes these things too quickly and aggressively? Some also feel he hasn't paid the price and been a democrat all along. But now those same people worry we will go backward with Trump. Go figure.
    I give Bernie credit for bringing all theses things to the front.unlike that woman I would love to see Universal care for all.

    We need some one to keep pushing. Democrats have been for that since FDR! I applaud Bernie for speaking out. I would admire him more if he had stayed a Democrat as he promised. Then Bernie could speak for the party.

    But Bernie and Chris are speaking out.

  4. #34
    vulgar? Rasselas's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    57,311
    Thanks
    29777

    From
    in my head
    Right now, the California legislature is considering a UHC plan for our state. If it passes...and if it defies the expectations of the right that it will create a fiscal crisis for the state...perhaps it will look like a reasonable option for others.

    OTOH, if it doesn't pass in California, how can anyone suggest that the rest of the country is ready for the idea?
    Thanks from Panzareta

  5. #35
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    37,601
    Thanks
    22273

    From
    New Hampshire
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Right now, the California legislature is considering a UHC plan for our state. If it passes...and if it defies the expectations of the right that it will create a fiscal crisis for the state...perhaps it will look like a reasonable option for others.

    OTOH, if it doesn't pass in California, how can anyone suggest that the rest of the country is ready for the idea?
    Vermont also tried it and failed. But the problem is we don't all live and work and remain within state boundaries. Companies in CA will still have to offer health insurance for employees in other states so it will cost more for them. Companies sunk it in Vermont because they lobbied against it. I would expect they will attempt the same in CA.
    Thanks from Madeline

  6. #36
    vulgar? Rasselas's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    57,311
    Thanks
    29777

    From
    in my head
    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Vermont also tried it and failed. But the problem is we don't all live and work and remain within state boundaries. Companies in CA will still have to offer health insurance for employees in other states so it will cost more for them. Companies sunk it in Vermont because they lobbied against it. I would expect they will attempt the same in CA.
    I'm not sure why Vermont's system failed, but Vermont and California are very different. I don't see the logic in your second sentence. CA companies have to offer health insurance for employees in other states now.

    The fact that UHC didn't work in the one American state where it was tried doesn't exactly add to its political viability nationally.

  7. #37
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    14,782
    Thanks
    11806

    From
    USA
    Meaningless Fox poll but I must say I do credit those who still haven't accepted the fact that Bernie did not even win the primary though Hillary treated him with kid gloves. He was never vetted by Republicans who found him useful. It is a drumbeat a portion of Bernie voters still don't get and no one should expect them to realize they messed up big time in the last election. I don't mind saying this is particularly irritating as it seems some relying on Fox simply live in a bubble. Look at all the people suffering today because of that attitude. Wish you all listened to Bernie when he told you to vote for Hillary.

    But nooooooooooooooo. Now we have to read endless drivel about how you didn't help get Trump in no, no way...musta been the rest of the libs via democrats. Couldn't be the conservative neo-progressive Bernie on and off supporters.
    Last edited by Minotaur; 17th March 2017 at 12:27 PM.
    Thanks from Panzareta

  8. #38
    Little Old Lady Madeline's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    44,329
    Thanks
    27209

    From
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Or is a case of "the old devil being better than the new devil" just because its known.
    This inertia is lost now, as Trumpcare rolls in to replace Obamacare (if it passes), and the citizens realize that Obamacare has been shifting as well.

  9. #39
    Little Old Lady Madeline's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    44,329
    Thanks
    27209

    From
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Just as we have don't have the political will for single-payer, we also don't have the political will to see people die on the streets in front of hospitals.
    We have the need and the desire; what we lack is the commitment from our politicians to deliver universal care.

  10. #40
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    14,782
    Thanks
    11806

    From
    USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Who cares, at this point? We need universal care NOW. Democrats COULD deliver it by 2018, if they organized and pushed.
    Bullshit.

    Sorry but that is dreamer talk. You know more dems are up for reelection and therefore likely to lose seats (same as it has always been in every election no matter the party.) And you know Universal healthcare is NOT, was NOT, and won't be until a decade or so from now. You all pretend Obama could have passed Universal even knowing better just as you pretend it can be passed now. Earth to Mars, this is reality we are living not a pretend game of any candidate saying what you want to hear is peachy.

    Do you really think 2018 can undo a republican President, House, Senate, new SCOTUS numbers, and all departments below? Give me a break!!!!

Page 4 of 32 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Senate Democrats tap Bernie Sanders to lead outreach
    By BYG Jacob in forum Current Events
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 16th November 2016, 01:35 PM
  2. Swing state democrats ask Bernie for help
    By bajisima in forum Current Events
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2nd August 2016, 05:43 AM
  3. Bernie Sanders booed by House Democrats
    By bajisima in forum Current Events
    Replies: 116
    Last Post: 7th July 2016, 05:18 PM
  4. Bernie and Jane: The democrats Thelma and Loiuse
    By bajisima in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 23rd May 2016, 11:24 AM
  5. Replies: 178
    Last Post: 22nd January 2016, 02:36 PM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed