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Thread: The Tax Impact Of Undocumented People

  1. #41
    It's a trap AttusBlack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Do you prefer factcheck.org?

    Cost of Illegal Immigrants
    Your own link says that illegals do cost states and locals.
    More recently, a 2007 report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office examined 29 reports on state and local costs published over 15 years in an attempt to answer this question. CBO concluded that most of the estimates determined that illegal immigrants impose a net cost to state and local governments but "that impact is most likely modest." CBO said "no agreement exists as to the size of, or even the best way of measuring, that cost on a national level."
    So if they cost States and locals have a net negative from illegals and the earlier report I linked to says they cost the feds -.1% of GDP, then how can anybody come to a conclusion that illegals are beneficial in some sort of way?
    Last edited by AttusBlack; 20th March 2017 at 11:04 AM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humorme View Post
    Quite possibly the best nonpartisan source for this debate is the Congressional Budget Office which did a study and concluded that if undocumented immigrants cost us any money, the cost was "modest:"

    https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...mmigration.pdf

    Virtually every study I've read continues to leave out the entire equation. The real reason employers choose foreigner laborers is that they produce more work for less money. So, you have to factor in the productivity advantage.

    Next, you have to figure in the benefit the individual gets from having access to lower costs, making otherwise prohibitively expensive jobs within reach of lower and middle income Americans.

    Finally, I've gone over this many times yet both sides dabble in myths. According to the Chief Actuary of the Social Security Administration, up to 75 percent of undocumented workers get their own Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the same taxes that you do. The myths that most undocumented workers use fake SSNs is pure fantasy.
    3/4 get back more than they paid in.

    Nonetheless, the contrast between tax returns filed with and without ITINs in 2010 is enlightening. As documented above, 72 percent of ITIN filers paid no income tax and received cash payments through child tax credits. In comparison, only 14 percent of people who filed regular tax returns (with a Social Security number instead of an ITIN) paid no income tax and received these payments.

    The monetary totals of ITIN returns are also instructive. In 2010, ITIN filers paid a total of $0.9 billion in income taxes and received cash payments of $4.9 billion. In other words, ITIN filers received 5.4 times more cash than they paid in income taxes. Most of this cash—$4.0 billion of it—came through child tax credits. Since these figures include foreign investors who are not eligible for child tax credits, it is possible that little-to-none of the taxes paid came from illegal immigrants.
    About 6.1 Million Illegals Filed Taxes in US ? Many Didn't Pay, Received Refunds
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  3. #43
    Little Old Lady Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humorme View Post
    Quite possibly the best nonpartisan source for this debate is the Congressional Budget Office which did a study and concluded that if undocumented immigrants cost us any money, the cost was "modest:"

    https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...mmigration.pdf

    Virtually every study I've read continues to leave out the entire equation. The real reason employers choose foreigner laborers is that they produce more work for less money. So, you have to factor in the productivity advantage.

    Next, you have to figure in the benefit the individual gets from having access to lower costs, making otherwise prohibitively expensive jobs within reach of lower and middle income Americans.

    Finally, I've gone over this many times yet both sides dabble in myths. According to the Chief Actuary of the Social Security Administration, up to 75 percent of undocumented workers get their own Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the same taxes that you do. The myths that most undocumented workers use fake SSNs is pure fantasy.
    I agree, for the most part. However, whatever the differential may be in anyone's opinion, that can be leveled out by turning undocumented people into legal residents and citizens as quickly and cheaply as possible.

  4. #44
    Little Old Lady Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    I have heard IRS fraud is on the rise among prisoners, but it's a mystery to me how it's accomplished.

    If the SSN is real and stolen, the W-2s would have to be counterfeited as well...and I'd have said this was impossible to do undetected.

  5. #45
    Little Old Lady Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttusBlack View Post
    Your own link says that illegals do cost states and locals. So if they cost States and locals have a net negative from illegals and the earlier report I linked to says they cost the feds -.1% of GDP, then how can anybody come to a conclusion that illegals are beneficial in some sort of way?
    How? They pay sales and property taxes, and presumably, pay state income taxes at least as often as they pay federal income taxes. There are various reconciliations of payroll between various filings.

    I don't understand what tax they could owe but not be paying. (I suppose there's an argument that the poor citizens don't pay for themselves, either.)

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Nice, using a fake news site to bolster your "claims".
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  7. #47
    It's a trap AttusBlack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    How? They pay sales and property taxes, and presumably, pay state income taxes at least as often as they pay federal income taxes. There are various reconciliations of payroll between various filings.

    I don't understand what tax they could owe but not be paying. (I suppose there's an argument that the poor citizens don't pay for themselves, either.)
    Sales/property/excise taxes aren't enough to cover the costs they create as claimed by the CBO report. They pay State income taxes? Some states don't have an income tax, and what states that do there is no showing that they actually pay any state income tax, many would receive back any state taxes they may have had with held, as they are entitled to claim the very same deductibles and credits as anybody else.

    It's not that they "owe" any tax or that they are not "paying" certain taxes, it's that what they may be paying in excise taxes isn't enough to cover their social costs. To date no State, including the Feds, show that they actually pay Income Tax. (Having tax deductions with held from a paycheck is not paying Income Tax, nor is filing a tax form using an ITIN/SS# considered paying taxes)
    Last edited by AttusBlack; 20th March 2017 at 11:55 AM.

  8. #48
    It's a trap AttusBlack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HayJenn View Post
    Nice, using a fake news site to bolster your "claims".
    Maybe you should follow the links in his link, one leads directly to the SSA's paper discussing it.

    ACTUARIAL NOTE
    SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION
    Number 151
    April 2013
    Office of the Chief Actuary
    Baltimore, Maryland

  9. #49
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttusBlack View Post
    Maybe you should follow the links in his link, one leads directly to the SSA's paper discussing it.

    ACTUARIAL NOTE
    SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION
    Number 151
    April 2013
    Office of the Chief Actuary
    Baltimore, Maryland
    From your link:

    While unauthorized immigrants worked and contributed as much as $13 billion in payroll taxes to the OASDI program in 2010, only about $1 billion in benefit payments during 2010 are attributable to unauthorized work. Thus, we estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010. We estimate that future years will experience a continuation of this positive impact on the trust funds.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttusBlack View Post
    Maybe you should follow the links in his link, one leads directly to the SSA's paper discussing it.

    ACTUARIAL NOTE
    SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION
    Number 151
    April 2013
    Office of the Chief Actuary
    Baltimore, Maryland

    Estimating the portion of all 2010 OASDI benefit payments that will be based on prior unauthorized earnings is even more problematic than estimating current unauthorized earnings. In general, we believe that the evidence
    indicates a relatively small portion of those who potentially could draw benefits do so.

    While unauthorized immigrants worked and contributed as much as $13 billion in payroll taxes to the OASDIprogram in 2010, only about $1 billion in benefit payments during 2010 are attributable to unauthorized work.

    Thus, we estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010. We estimate that future years will experience a continuation of this positive impact on the trust funds.

    Ooops, Djinn beat me to it
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