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Thread: The Tax Impact Of Undocumented People

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    I agree, for the most part. However, whatever the differential may be in anyone's opinion, that can be leveled out by turning undocumented people into legal residents and citizens as quickly and cheaply as possible.
    And I respectfully disagree. I support a Guest Worker status with no automatic path to citizenship.

  2. #82
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humorme View Post
    And I respectfully disagree. I support a Guest Worker status with no automatic path to citizenship.
    Nope. We need more healthy young American taxpayers, by the millions, as fast as possible.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Nope. We need more healthy young American taxpayers, by the millions, as fast as possible.
    We do and we could absolutely triple legal immigration of course, and likely should adopt a skilled migration like Australia. Assuming current illegal aliens are naturalized or otherwise granted permanent resident status, in 5 years, which is the current waiting time for a person holding a green card to qualify for Medicaid, 95%+ of current illegal aliens will be on Medicaid.
    Thanks from Madeline

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Nope. We need more healthy young American taxpayers, by the millions, as fast as possible.
    WE don't "need" any more people in this country for at least another 15 years. Some places in America are flooded with people to the point that you can barely live.

    The real point is that the employer owns the job he or she creates. They have a de jure / lawful / constitutional Right to give that job to the candidate that best fills that need. The immigration laws are put into place, mostly to regulate citizenship, NOT interfere with the needs of individual business.

    Your response shows a bias toward socialism. The individual businessman's needs are not the nation's needs. That is the case in socialist nations and the reason that the Trumpeteers want the wall, National ID, E-Verify, etc. They also want us to adopt the immigration laws of communist and socialist countries.

    Our history has proven that the availability of cheap foreign labor helps the economy over-all.

    Do Illegal Immigrants Actually Hurt the U.S. Economy? - The New York Times

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Virtually everyone who wants the deportation of undocumented people stepped up cites the tax impact of these people as one reason, saying they resent paying for government services used by such people, such as free public education.

    But are they correct?

    Study after study has concluded that no, they are not. Viewing "tax" as including all involuntary payments made to government, these people pay an estimated $12 billion in Social Security alone while receiving an estimated $1 billion in tax benefits, annually.

    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...f97d850c14.jpg



    https://www.theatlantic.com/business...-taxes/499604/



    How much do undocumented immigrants pay in taxes? | PunditFact



    5 immigration myths debunked - Nov. 20, 2014

    Unclaimed payments to Social Security are protecting the solvency of that program in the face of enormous new demands made by Baby Boomers.



    5 immigration myths debunked - Nov. 20, 2014

    Undocumented people pay rent, just as any citizen does, and the taxes on their property are the primary source of funding for local schools, The federal dollars for education are distributed based on the number of students, without regard to the citizenship status of any of them. Obviously, undocumented people are less likely than citizens to receive welfare, Medicaid or food stamps.



    See also:

    5 immigration myths debunked - Nov. 20, 2014https://www.usnews.com/news/articles...lions-in-taxes

    https://www.americanimmigrationcounc...ted-immigrants

    Undocumented Immigrants Pay More in Taxes Than They Receive in Benefits

    This is not the only POV; a certain amount of guessing is necessary, and there are other pundits who feel the paid in/paid out balance is definately negative, although they are in the minority and not as well-respected. And tax is not the whole economic picture, even if anyone wants to choose his POV on undocumented people based only on dollars and sense. You'd also want to consider the enormous wealth they build for Americans by their HUGELY undervalued contributions to agriculture, health care, construction and other business sectors.

    Nevertheless, the leading economists view undocumented people in America as a boon to our government, by a factor of 10+.

    Your thoughts?
    Pretty cool Nation wide Illegal Immigrants pay 12 billion in taxes.

    Only one problem.

    IN JUST ONE STATE CA. Illegal immigrants use 26.3 billion in welfare Benefits so ILLEGALS IN 1 STATE use EXPEND more that TWICE as many tax dollars than they pay NATION WIDE.

    OOPS.

  6. #86
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humorme View Post
    WE don't "need" any more people in this country for at least another 15 years. Some places in America are flooded with people to the point that you can barely live.

    The real point is that the employer owns the job he or she creates. They have a de jure / lawful / constitutional Right to give that job to the candidate that best fills that need. The immigration laws are put into place, mostly to regulate citizenship, NOT interfere with the needs of individual business.

    Your response shows a bias toward socialism. The individual businessman's needs are not the nation's needs. That is the case in socialist nations and the reason that the Trumpeteers want the wall, National ID, E-Verify, etc. They also want us to adopt the immigration laws of communist and socialist countries.

    Our history has proven that the availability of cheap foreign labor helps the economy over-all.

    Do Illegal Immigrants Actually Hurt the U.S. Economy? - The New York Times
    I am not speaking from a philosophical POV. I am speaking from a population POV: healthy young immigrants are the only way to soften the impact of the Boomer population bomb.

    This thread contains posts by many different people here with terrific explanations and links:

    The Boomers, The Future & You

  7. #87
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    Pretty cool Nation wide Illegal Immigrants pay 12 billion in taxes.

    Only one problem.

    IN JUST ONE STATE CA. Illegal immigrants use 26.3 billion in welfare Benefits so ILLEGALS IN 1 STATE use EXPEND more that TWICE as many tax dollars than they pay NATION WIDE.

    OOPS.
    That $12 Billion is just for FICA (social security tax), TNV. Undocumented people pay the entire array of taxes paid by citizens of similar income, usually in full or nearly in full.

    Property taxes, sales taxes, income taxes, etc.

    And the California estimated outlay for undocumented people of $30 Billion referenced above is the product of a tortured, distorted "calculation".

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    That $12 Billion is just for FICA (social security tax), TNV. Undocumented people pay the entire array of taxes paid by citizens of similar income, usually in full or nearly in full.

    Property taxes, sales taxes, income taxes, etc.

    And the California estimated outlay for undocumented people of $30 Billion referenced above is the product of a tortured, distorted "calculation".
    Most Illegals get the Earned Income Tax Credit.. so they pay a NEGATIVE tax on the income taxes.

    And you do understand that SS taxes you speak of go to the GENERAL OPERATIONAL BUDGET of the US Government, the same budget that the 26.3 billion of welfare benefits used by illegals (in just California this does NOT include the other 49 states and DC)

    So just CALIFORNIAN ILLEGALS EXSPEND more than DOUBLE the taxes paid nationwide by illegals.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/ja...ceived-refunds

  9. #89
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    Most Illegals get the Earned Income Tax Credit.. so they pay a NEGATIVE tax on the income taxes.
    You are correct.

    *Snip*

    [T]he IRS routinely seeks to collect both federal income taxes and federal payroll taxes from illegal immigrants, who are required to pay regardless of their immigration status. Because such workers don’t qualify for a valid Social Security number, the IRS issues a nine-digit Individual Taxpayer Identification Number. An ITIN doesn’t authorize the user to work legally in the U.S., and doesn’t entitle him or her to Social Security benefits.

    But in addition to collecting taxes, the IRS has increasingly been making payments to low-income workers who pay no federal income tax but qualify for “refundable” credits. Generally, illegal immigrants don’t qualify for Social Security, Medicare or other federal benefits, except for emergency medical treatment in hospitals. And since passage of the 1996 welfare reform law, they have been ineligible for the refundable portion of the Earned Income Tax Credit as well.

    At that time, Congress required that a valid Social Security number be filed for those claiming the EITC, and that requirement saved an estimated $300 million a year. But Congress did not enact a similar requirement when it created the child tax credit, which went into effect in tax year 1998 at $400 per child, and was increased to $500 the following year.

    *Snip*
    Tax Credits for Illegal Immigrants

    And you do understand that SS taxes you speak of go to the GENERAL OPERATIONAL BUDGET of the US Government, the same budget that the 26.3 billion of welfare benefits used by illegals (in just California this does NOT include the other 49 states and DC)
    No, mostly they go to a segregated fund, held against the possibility they will be properly claimed in the future. Not sure I understand your point about federal and state budgets. Can you expand on this?

    So just CALIFORNIAN ILLEGALS EXSPEND more than DOUBLE the taxes paid nationwide by illegals.
    No. There is no failure to pay property taxes, so the education costs are as fully funded as they are for the children of citizens. That alone is a $15 Billion error.

    About 6.1 Million Illegals Filed Taxes in US ? Many Didn't Pay, Received Refunds[/QUOTE]

    61 million undocumented people filed requests for tax refunds? SIXTY ONE million?

    NOBODY thinks the total number of undocumented people is anywhere near that high.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Nope. We need more healthy young American taxpayers, by the millions, as fast as possible.
    Not really. Technology is rapidly reducing the the number of jobs required to support us.

    Since our economy is similar to a Ponzi, more taxpayers are needed to keep the scam going, but it is just kicking the can down the road and making the situation worse.

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