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Thread: The Tax Impact Of Undocumented People

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    Little Old Lady Madeline's Avatar
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    The Tax Impact Of Undocumented People

    Virtually everyone who wants the deportation of undocumented people stepped up cites the tax impact of these people as one reason, saying they resent paying for government services used by such people, such as free public education.

    But are they correct?

    Study after study has concluded that no, they are not. Viewing "tax" as including all involuntary payments made to government, these people pay an estimated $12 billion in Social Security alone while receiving an estimated $1 billion in tax benefits, annually.

    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...f97d850c14.jpg

    The Social Security system has grown increasingly reliant on this stream of revenue, particularly as aging Baby Boomers start to retire. Stephen Goss, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration, estimates that about 1.8 million immigrants were working with fake or stolen Social Security cards in 2010, and he expects that number to reach 3.4 million by 2040. He calculates that undocumented immigrants paid $13 billion into the retirement trust fund that year, and only got about $1 billion in benefits. “We estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010,” Gross concluded in a 2013 review of the impact of undocumented immigrants on Social Security.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/business...-taxes/499604/

    In a 2014 Vice News piece, the Social Security Administration’s chief actuary Stephen C. Goss affirmed the $12 billion contribution.

    Social Security Administration analysts said "a relatively small portion" of those who could draw benefits do so.

    *Snip*

    An analysis by the conservative Heritage Foundation came up with a lower figure: $7 billion, excluding payments from employers.
    How much do undocumented immigrants pay in taxes? | PunditFact

    Undocumented immigrants are already U.S. taxpayers.

    Collectively, they paid an estimated $10.6 billion to state and local taxes in 2010, according to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), a research organization that works on tax policy issues. Contributions varied by state. In Montana they contributed $2 million. In California, more than $2.2 billion. On average they pay about 6.4% of their income in state and local taxes, ITEP said.

    A 2007 Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report on the impact of undocumented immigrants on the budgets of local and state governments cited IRS figures showing that 50% to 75% of the about 11 million unauthorized U.S. immigrants file and pay income taxes each year.

    A 2013 CBO analysis of the failed bipartisan bill introduced by the so-called "gang of 8" that would have created a path to legal status for many undocumented immigrants found that increasing legal immigration would increase government spending on refundable tax credits, Medicaid and health insurance subsidies, among other federal benefits. But it would also create even more tax revenue by way of income and payroll taxes. That could reduce deficits by $175 billion over the first 10 years and by at least $700 billion in the second decade.

    ITEP estimates that allowing certain immigrants to stay in the country and work legally would boost state and local tax contributions by $2 billion a year.
    5 immigration myths debunked - Nov. 20, 2014

    Unclaimed payments to Social Security are protecting the solvency of that program in the face of enormous new demands made by Baby Boomers.

    The truth is that undocumented immigrants contribute more in payroll taxes than they will ever consume in public benefits.

    Take Social Security. According to the Social Security Administration (SSA), unauthorized immigrants -- who are not eligible to receive Social Security benefits -- have paid an eye-popping $100 billion into the fund over the past decade.

    "They are paying an estimated $15 billion a year into Social Security with no intention of ever collecting benefits," Stephen Goss, chief actuary of the SSA told CNNMoney. "Without the estimated 3.1 million undocumented immigrants paying into the system, Social Security would have entered persistent shortfall of tax revenue to cover payouts starting in 2009," he said.

    As the baby boom generation ages and retires, immigrant workers are key to shoring up Social Security and counteracting the effects of the decline in U.S.-born workers paying into the system, Goss said.

    Without immigrants, the Social Security Board of Trustees projects that the system will no longer be able to pay the full promised benefits by 2037.
    5 immigration myths debunked - Nov. 20, 2014

    Undocumented people pay rent, just as any citizen does, and the taxes on their property are the primary source of funding for local schools, The federal dollars for education are distributed based on the number of students, without regard to the citizenship status of any of them. Obviously, undocumented people are less likely than citizens to receive welfare, Medicaid or food stamps.

    Non-citizen immigrant adults and children are about 25% less likely to be signed up for Medicaid than their poor native-born equivalents and are also 37% less likely to receive food stamps, according to a 2013 study by the Cato Institute.
    See also:

    5 immigration myths debunked - Nov. 20, 2014https://www.usnews.com/news/articles...lions-in-taxes

    https://www.americanimmigrationcounc...ted-immigrants

    Undocumented Immigrants Pay More in Taxes Than They Receive in Benefits

    This is not the only POV; a certain amount of guessing is necessary, and there are other pundits who feel the paid in/paid out balance is definately negative, although they are in the minority and not as well-respected. And tax is not the whole economic picture, even if anyone wants to choose his POV on undocumented people based only on dollars and sense. You'd also want to consider the enormous wealth they build for Americans by their HUGELY undervalued contributions to agriculture, health care, construction and other business sectors.

    Nevertheless, the leading economists view undocumented people in America as a boon to our government, by a factor of 10+.

    Your thoughts?
    Last edited by Madeline; 20th March 2017 at 06:02 AM.
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    Veteran Member DebateDrone's Avatar
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    For all members that do not know the IRS requires by law that all persons in the US, documented or not, file returns for work performed in the US.

    The IRS gives aliens, legal and not, a tax Identification Number to file. ITIN.
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    It's a trap AttusBlack's Avatar
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    Half of the claimed $12B into SS is paid by the employer, there are also numerous no match numbers of women who failed to change their SS when they changed their name, etc. Some can also use Totalization Agreements to get receive SS when they come of age. As to state and local taxes everybody regardless of status pays, the issue is whether illegals pay enough in property tax to cover their children's cost in school, or in sales tax for the use of local services.

    The biggest myth is that the pay federal taxes, just because they have payroll taxes deducted from a paycheck doesn't mean they pay into the federal tax system, especially if they file their tax forms using an ITIN number. They are entitled to receive the same credits as everybody else and have a negative tax rate, meaning they receive back much more than they may have had with held.

    Leading Economists view undocumented people as a boon to our government by a factor of 10+? LMFAO NO they don't, not only that but none of your links is to an actual economist. Even the Progressive Paul Krugman admits illegals cost us money. Gordon Hanson from UCSD says they cost us -.1% of GDP per year.
    The Economics and Policy of Illegal Immigration in the United States | migrationpolicy.org

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    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    For all members that do not know the IRS requires by law that all persons in the US, documented or not, file returns for work performed in the US.

    The IRS gives aliens, legal and not, a tax Identification Number to file. ITIN.
    It's also worth noting that the IRS notices when people aren't contributing to Social Security. Illegal immigrants paying into SS (even though they will never collect from it) makes it easier for them to stay under the radar.
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    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttusBlack View Post
    Half of the claimed $12B into SS is paid by the employer, ...
    Please explain this. In what context are the employers paying into the social security fund? It's withheld from the pay of illegal immigrants earning paychecks.

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    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    For all members that do not know the IRS requires by law that all persons in the US, documented or not, file returns for work performed in the US.

    The IRS gives aliens, legal and not, a tax Identification Number to file. ITIN.
    But in the age of Trump, doesn't that make them easier to find? Border patrol and ICE are everywhere these days. Never in my entire life did I ever see them here in New England until now. They are all over. Saw a Border patrol vehicle parked outside a local high school last week. Can only imagine what or who they were looking for.
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    Veteran Member DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttusBlack View Post
    Half of the claimed $12B into SS is paid by the employer, there are also numerous no match numbers of women who failed to change their SS when they changed their name, etc. Some can also use Totalization Agreements to get receive SS when they come of age. As to state and local taxes everybody regardless of status pays, the issue is whether illegals pay enough in property tax to cover their children's cost in school, or in sales tax for the use of local services.

    The biggest myth is that the pay federal taxes, just because they have payroll taxes deducted from a paycheck doesn't mean they pay into the federal tax system, especially if they file their tax forms using an ITIN number. They are entitled to receive the same credits as everybody else and have a negative tax rate, meaning they receive back much more than they may have had with held.

    Leading Economists view undocumented people as a boon to our government by a factor of 10+? LMFAO NO they don't, not only that but none of your links is to an actual economist. Even the Progressive Paul Krugman admits illegals cost us money. Gordon Hanson from UCSD says they cost us -.1% of GDP per year.
    The Economics and Policy of Illegal Immigration in the United States | migrationpolicy.org
    What part of your post is the cited source?

    Your initial paragraph is not part of your cited source.

    It is confusing to discern your unsubstantiated work product from other's.
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    told you so Amelia's Avatar
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    To the disputed cost about their tax benefits, with some saying they are a net plus and some saying a net negative, add the cost of their removal. The literal cost of apprehension, detention and deportation, plus the cost to law enforcement when there are millions of people living in terror of helping with any crime prosecution, plus the cost of raising the children whose families have been taken from them.

    And then justify how that doesn't bust the budget.
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    Veteran Member DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    But in the age of Trump, doesn't that make them easier to find? Border patrol and ICE are everywhere these days. Never in my entire life did I ever see them here in New England until now. They are all over. Saw a Border patrol vehicle parked outside a local high school last week. Can only imagine what or who they were looking for.
    The US Supreme Court ruled that all children had a right to a public education regardless of their immigration status.

    The Trump administration does not believe they have a right to get there.
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    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    To the disputed cost about their tax benefits, with some saying they are a net plus and some saying a net negative, add the cost of their removal. The literal cost of apprehension, detention and deportation, plus the cost to law enforcement when there are millions of people living in terror of helping with any crime prosecution, plus the cost of raising the children whose families have been taken from them.

    And then justify how that doesn't bust the budget.
    Trump's deportation plan is estimated to cost at least $400 billion. At the same time, the drop in workers would reduce the national GDP by about a billion. It doesn't matter how you slice it; it's a net loss.

    Source - Wall Street Journal
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