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Thread: Wild American Horses Will Go Extinct Under Trump Budget

  1. #31
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Do you feel the same way about feral hogs and feral cats?

    We would be better off without the feral horses.
    I'm tired. I will post a primer on the evolution of these horses later.

    It's fascinating stuff.

  2. #32
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Do you feel the same way about feral hogs and feral cats?

    We would be better off without the feral horses.
    Not a good analogy. Feral hogs and feral cats are present in many ecosystems where they were NOT native. For example, there are feral hogs on some islands in the Pacific. Quite obviously, those hogs would have NEVER gotten there without human agency.

    Unless, of course, you think that pigs can fly.........
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  3. #33
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    THESE horses have not interbred with domestic horses to any appreciable degree since Columbus.
    Well, I would say from about half a century AFTER Columbus. At about the time of the expeditions of Coronado into the American Southwest.
    Last edited by BigLeRoy; 31st May 2017 at 09:38 AM.
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  4. #34
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    So what? So WHAT that the wild horses of today are descended from domesticated horses brought here from Europe?!?? They are the SAME species, Equus equus, and horses WERE native to North America, whether you are willing to admit the fact or not.
    And....they are almost the only wild horses living free, in herds, on the entire planet.

    And....they have been since the 15th century...

    And....they have a little bit of "Neanderthal DNA" from the few horses that existed in this county in the 15th century.

    So, all in all, irreplaceable and precious.

  5. #35
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Well, I would say from about a century AFTER Columbus. At about the time of the expeditions of Coronado into the American Southwest.
    Mathing is hard for me.

    Lol.
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  6. #36
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Not a good analogy. Feral hogs and feral cats are present in many ecosystems where they were NOT native. For example, there are feral hogs on some islands in the Pacific. Quite obviously, those hogs would have NEVER gotten there without human agency.

    Unless, of course, you think that pigs can fly.........
    No shit. They have found Siberian boar DNA in wild pigs in Florida.

    Those "Pig Bomb" documentaries are terrifying.
    Thanks from BigLeRoy

  7. #37
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    So what? So WHAT that the wild horses of today are descended from domesticated horses brought here from Europe?!?? They are the SAME species, Equus equus, and horses WERE native to North America, whether you are willing to admit the fact or not.
    If horses were native to North America, how come the aboriginal peoples, the "Injuns", as you Americans call them lol never rode horses until white settlers passed that custom to them?

  8. #38
    Veteran Member Panzareta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    I'm tired. I will post a primer on the evolution of these horses later.

    It's fascinating stuff.
    The average "Wild Mustang" is descended from horses let loose or escaped from ranches in the 20th century. The average mustang has little to no Spanish Mustang direct descended genetics.
    Last edited by Panzareta; 31st May 2017 at 09:52 AM.

  9. #39
    Veteran Member Panzareta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Not a good analogy. Feral hogs and feral cats are present in many ecosystems where they were NOT native. For example, there are feral hogs on some islands in the Pacific. Quite obviously, those hogs would have NEVER gotten there without human agency.

    Unless, of course, you think that pigs can fly.........
    And efforts are being made to erradicate them for the negative effects they have on the environment. Such as those on Santa Cruz Island near Santa Catalina where they have been blamed for the killing off many of the native species such as the island fox and the erosion caused by their feeding habits.
    Thanks from labrea and Madeline

  10. #40
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    If horses were native to North America, how come the aboriginal peoples, the "Injuns", as you Americans call them lol never rode horses until white settlers passed that custom to them?
    Most likely? The Paleo-Indians who arrived in the American continents some 14,000 years ago hunted them to extinction. This was BEFORE any animals other than the dog had been domesticated...

    So were the Paleo-Indians supposed to say to each other, "Hey, you know, these are animals that we could DOMESTICATE some day, and then we might even be able to RIDE them, so we should be REAL careful not to hunt them to extinction in the meantime"?!??
    Thanks from The Man and Madeline

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