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Thread: Trump to Mayor of Disappearing Island Town: "Don't Worry About It"

  1. #51
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Why are the Great Lakes going to rise?

    Is there permanent ice in them I wasn't aware of?
    What happens to the Mississippi River, if the Atlantic ocean levels increase by, say, 4 inches?

  2. #52
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Okay, if you are such a believer in climate change, what are YOU doing about it? Do you bicycle everywhere? How do you heat your house? Power this computer that you are using? Actually, you don't give a damn about climate change. You just look for ways to blame conservatives for everything.
    Since when do I blame conservatives for everything? I think most of the board liberals are currently annoyed with me because I think the conservatives are correct about too many things.

    What can an individual do? Yes, you can reduce your carbon footprint. Lovely gesture, and more importantly, if you live near to where you work, you have time and money the dedicated commuter does not, and you are likely happier.

    I live in Cleveland, not Miami. I can probably die here without major climate-related misery, apart from water pollution.

    The city is in a state of change, because of the Great Recession. I want vacant homes torn down, yes, but mainly to make new, small parks. I want unneeded concrete parking lots torn out of the sites of closed factories. I want trees planted in city streets, and the ghetto to receive new garden islands and other traffic-calming devices, to increase safety and comfort.

    And for the most part, I am getting what I want. Green endeavors are proving to be highly effective, noncontroversial remedies for violent crime and poverty.

    Not enough on their own. Obviously, but much more effective than most people expected.

    Park-building is corporate Cleveland's favorite new way to give back.
    Last edited by Madeline; 15th June 2017 at 11:14 AM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    What happens to the Mississippi River, if the Atlantic ocean levels increase by, say, 4 inches?
    Ms. Madeline,

    A lot can happen in the 400 to 500 years when that will happen, if it ever does.

  4. #54
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    So the primary problem is erosion, not the 4 inch rise in sea level we have seen over the last 120 years?
    Rising sea levels mean that more land is subject to erosion damage. The highest point on the island is only four feet above sea level.
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  5. #55
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Rising sea levels mean that more land is subject to erosion damage. The highest point on the island is only four feet above sea level.
    Are you thinking the sea levels will increase by four feet? Four inches? How much? How long? Next can you prove the cause of this increase?
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  6. #56
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    It's real but you can't prove that it is manmade or that man can stop it. When I was a kid, we were headed for another ice age. Turned out they were wrong on that one, then it was global warming. Now it is just climate change. A lot of people are buying it. Let's say that you are right. How much do you believe in it? Are you willing to quit using electricity? Plastic products? Internal combustion motors? I'm betting the answer is, No.
    "They" didn't think we were headed for another ice age.

    In the thirty years leading up to the 1970s, available temperature recordings suggested that there was a cooling trend. As a result some scientists suggested that the current inter-glacial period could rapidly draw to a close, which might result in the Earth plunging into a new ice age over the next few centuries. This idea could have been reinforced by the knowledge that the smog that climatologists call ‘aerosols’ – emitted by human activities into the atmosphere – also caused cooling. In fact, as temperature recording has improved in coverage, it’s become apparent that the cooling trend was most pronounced in northern land areas and that global temperature trends were in fact relatively steady during the period prior to 1970.

    At the same time as some scientists were suggesting we might be facing another ice age, a greater number published contradicting studies. Their papers showed that the growing amount of greenhouse gasses that humans were putting into the atmosphere would cause much greater warming – warming that would exert a much greater influence on global temperature than any possible natural or human-caused cooling effects.

    By 1980 the predictions about ice ages had ceased, due to the overwhelming evidence contained in an increasing number of reports that warned of global warming. Unfortunately, the small number of predictions of an ice age appeared to be much more interesting than those of global warming, so it was those sensational 'Ice Age' stories in the press that so many people tend to remember.


    https://www.skepticalscience.com/ice...s-in-1970s.htm

    Today, an overwhelming number of scientists know we are contributing to global warming. And they also know that individuals alone making changes like depending less on fossil fuels and other byproducts will not be enough to make the changes necessary. It will take concerted and coordinated efforts by all of the governments on the planet.
    Last edited by Babba; 15th June 2017 at 08:53 AM.
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  7. #57
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Are you thinking the sea levels will increase by four feet? Four inches? How much? How long? Next can you prove the cause of this increase?
    No, I'm not thinking that. But an increase of a few inches will expose much more of land to the effects of erosion. I'd have to look at a few topographical maps, but I expect an increase of one foot would render most of the island uninhabitable.

    And science isn't about "proving" things. It's about presenting supportable evidence. "Proofs" are the domain of math; not science. Are you asking for supporting evidence? If so, I'll gladly do so. But not if you're planning to play the old "Gotcha! That's not proof!" game.
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  8. #58
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Are you thinking the sea levels will increase by four feet? Four inches? How much? How long? Next can you prove the cause of this increase?
    Thermal Expansion: When water heats up, it expands. About half of the past century's rise in sea level is attributable to warmer oceans simply occupying more space.
    Melting Glaciers and Polar Ice Caps: Large ice formations, like glaciers and the polar ice caps, naturally melt back a bit each summer. In the winter, snows, primarily from evaporated seawater, are generally sufficient to balance out the melting. Recently, though, persistently higher temperatures caused by global warming have led to greater-than-average summer melting as well as diminished snowfall due to later winters and earlier springs. This imbalance results in a significant net gain in the ratio of runoff to ocean evaporation, causing sea levels to rise.
    Ice Loss from Greenland and West Antarctica: As with the glaciers and ice caps, increased heat is causing the massive ice sheets that cover Greenland and Antarctica to melt at an accelerated pace. Scientists also believe meltwater from above and seawater from below is seeping beneath Greenland's and West Antarctica's ice sheets, effectively lubricating ice streams and causing them to move more quickly into the sea. Higher sea temperatures are causing the massive ice shelves that extend out from Antarctica to melt from below, weaken, and break off.
    Consequences
    When sea levels rise rapidly, as they have been doing, even a small increase can have devastating effects on coastal habitats. As seawater reaches farther inland, it can cause destructive erosion, wetland flooding, aquifer and agricultural soil contamination, and lost habitat for fish, birds, and plants.
    Core samples, tide gauge readings, and, most recently, satellite measurements tell us that over the past century, the Global Mean Sea Level (GMSL) has risen by 4 to 8 inches (10 to 20 centimeters). However, the annual rate of rise over the past 20 years has been 0.13 inches (3.2 millimeters) a year, roughly twice the average speed of the preceding 80 years.
    From that well known fake news site, National Geographic....

    Sea Level Rise
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  9. #59
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Are you thinking the sea levels will increase by four feet? Four inches? How much? How long? Next can you prove the cause of this increase?
    Science news is available other than by asking ME.

    Will Your City Be Underwater? There's a Map for That | PBS NewsHour

    https://thinkprogress.org/how-much-w...u-d933dc38f627

    https://thinkprogress.org/how-much-w...u-d933dc38f627

    BBC - Earth - This is how far seas could rise thanks to climate change
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  10. #60
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    @Southern Dad....good on you for asking.

    Notice, sea levels will not rise at a uniform rate. There is a variation in sea levels already, due to various factors, most especially the magnetic pull exerted on the earth by the moon.

    Climate change could alter the axis of the earth; if it does, the equator would likewise shift, and with it, the distribution of water in the earth's oceans.

    And this is only one of the myriad inter-related effects of changes in our climate that MAY happen. You cannot substitute the judgement of scientists for your own, mainly because scientists are not all in agreement as to precisely what will happen and when.

    However, there is a fairly wide-spread agreement that climate change impacts are coming faster than was anticipated as recently as 10 years ago.

    Personally, I trust the science news reported by the BBC and PBS as being accurate and unbiased. Obviously, some of the reports coming directly from scientists is over my head, as I am not a scientist. But it is also true that a recent-formed, liberal blog might not evaluate its reporters' science pieces with the scrutiny they deserve.

    I also think Mother Jones is reliable. They have been around since the 1960's and have never engaged in bad, biased journalism.

    Lastly, you might enjoy Governing magazine, found at Governing.com. This journal reports on state and local political news, and is aimed at students of public administration,. etc. Local politicians are far less likely to engage in politically-motivated science denial, and are more inclined to form partnerships with opposing parties, corporate citizens and other stakeholders to solve problems.

    Last edited by Madeline; 15th June 2017 at 11:06 AM.

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