Members banned from this thread: Humorme


Page 4 of 24 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 237
Thanks Tree229Thanks

Thread: WTF is a 21st century American "Nazi"?

  1. #31
    Veteran Member Pragmatist's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    44,344
    Thanks
    12749

    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    No it isn't.

    Conservatives have passed the majority of Civil Rights legislation against democratic opposition.

    Bush signed the last Civil Rights bill into law.

    Democrats filibustered the '57 act and a higher percentage of republicans voted for the 64' act than democrats did.

    This is a liberal talking point lie.
    The 64 law was signed by a democrat. But who gives a shit, it would never pass today with bigots controlling congress. Every issue today affecting human rights it's the conservative against them.
    Thanks from MaryAnne

  2. #32
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    42,255
    Thanks
    30274

    From
    Englewood,Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Because he was forced to by the times.

    LBJ was one of the biggest racists in the nation, I would post some quotes but I've been banned for doing that before.

    The Civil Rights movement by that time had become so powerful he had no choice.

    Remember that both he and Kennedy were against the 57' Civil Rights Act. Kennedy voted against it actually.
    LBJ could not be forced into anything. He ruled with an iron fist. I was not crazy about him, but he accomplished a lot after the JFK death. Most likely because of it. He failed on Vietnam,admitted it,refused to run again.

  3. #33
    Veteran Member Pragmatist's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    44,344
    Thanks
    12749

    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Yeah it was Bund I was referring to.

    He was the American leader of the movement.

    At the time many people saw Hitler as a savior of the economy for what he was doing and thought that was the way to go.

    They saw the government taking care of its people which was the draw for the left.

    Conservatives had different economic ideas so didn't really buy into it.

    It wasn't about hate or race it was about the Great Depression.
    So why do you suppose that they have completely flipped and today all your bigoted racists are conservatives? I take it that's why you are a conservative today? Because 100 yrs ago a lot of democrats were bigots?
    Thanks from MaryAnne

  4. #34
    Veteran Member Pragmatist's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    44,344
    Thanks
    12749

    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Because he was forced to by the times.

    LBJ was one of the biggest racists in the nation, I would post some quotes but I've been banned for doing that before.

    The Civil Rights movement by that time had become so powerful he had no choice.

    Remember that both he and Kennedy were against the 57' Civil Rights Act. Kennedy voted against it actually.
    so fucking what? This isn't 80 yrs ago and today the fucking bigoted racist is invariably a conservative.
    Thanks from Madeline

  5. #35
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    42,255
    Thanks
    30274

    From
    Englewood,Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
    The 64 law was signed by a democrat. But who gives a shit, it would never pass today with bigots controlling congress. Every issue today affecting human rights it's the conservative against them.
    Quote Originally Posted by BitterPill View Post
    How can you tell those people are Democrats?

    Back then Roosevelt led the Democratic Party, and he was no Nazi, was he?
    He can't. Just digs up stock pictures with no links.

  6. #36
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    63,632
    Thanks
    44115

    From
    So. Md.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    No it isn't.

    Conservatives have passed the majority of Civil Rights legislation against democratic opposition.

    Bush signed the last Civil Rights bill into law.

    Democrats filibustered the '57 act and a higher percentage of republicans voted for the 64' act than democrats did.

    This is a liberal talking point lie.
    Yeah, the Dixiecrats like Strom Thurmod were the ones who opposed the bill.

  7. #37
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    50,190
    Thanks
    29208

    From
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Nazism actually had a big following in America at one point.

    Mostly pulling from democrats by the way.



    Back then however it wasn't so much about hate it was about nationalism.

    That's why FDR had such a hard time getting support for the war, his own party was blocking him forcing him to enact the lend-lease program.
    I was with you, to a point. Are you suggesting that rally in the photo was held in the US?

    Link?

  8. #38
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    12,373
    Thanks
    10287

    From
    Here
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    It was easy to see who was a Nazi in WWII. They had uniforms.

    But 70+ years later, is it possible to become a Nazi in America, in any meaningful sense of the word? Obviously, you can self-describe as a Nazi to frighten or disgust people.....but that ideology is extinct, and really, was stillborn even in Germany. Any nation at war is under enormous stress and success always depends in part on a rigid control of civilians.

    Fascism enjoyed a longer life, especially in Spain. I suppose you could be an American fascist, if you crave an extreme right-wing political identity.

    But if you are to be taken seriously as a self-described Nazi, you must do more than think bad thoughts.

    Is it possible that, although you might be able to "become" an American fascist, "American Nazism" is doomed to be nothing more than a costume party for assholes?



    Your thoughts?
    It appears to be rooted in a number of things......one being what looks to be a sincere insecurity about one's self and acting out as a means to gain attention and power (through fear and loathing). Fear is always a good way to get people's attention and for some, taking it further (acting out what otherwise are threats and means to gain attention (outrageous comments and comments meant to instill fear (note your poster)). First attach one's self to a general feeling of people's "troubles".......then find scapegoats to blame and build fury against.....the extremist mob will then take it further and act out against those used as scapegoats......

    Anyone can read "Mein Kampf" and see what was behind Hitler's thoughts and how they were taken to the extreme. It did not happen overnight and it was a slow build to what became defeat and shame for not just Germany, but to a lesser degree Italy and the same sorts of factions in other nations during that time that sided with Hitler's ideology....such as the Vichy French and the Nasjonal Samling in Norway.....

    It is perhaps a ripe time for what is currently happening as we move into roughly 80 years away from that time and those who lived during the era as adults are mostly gone and disappearing fast, so are their direct experiences.....even their children are aging and memories are second hand....

    It is amazing how many people cannot remember what happened last year or only a few years ago (even without having a disease which affects their memory), so it is no wonder that people do not seem to have any concept of what that period was like for those who lived through it, on all sides. I have no doubt there are inaccuracies in statistics and recollections, but there are so many recollections and too many of them have the same threads running through them to suggest as some (it does not look as though you are trying to do so here) do, that the Holocaust was one big hoax in one way or another. As time passes, the people that experienced it firsthand are no longer around and there is distance from the experience and the reality of it......those who want to use the ideologies of the past will take advantage of a lack of firsthand memories and work to obfuscate,

    In 2017, there are also still enough people who heard the stories of their parents and grandparents, have experienced being on the other side of Neo-Nazism and enough who have studied and corroborated the accounts they have studied to resist all those who have not or have, but wish to reawaken the wrong side of that past and era and are exploiting, just as Hitler suggested and did, those who are not very educated in society to get them to buy into the scapegoating and false, but sold as real, sense of "patriotism" and "nationalism" as a means to unify and attack whatever is used as a scapegoat for all the ills, the not so informed or educated members of society are feeling or told/led to believe, they should be feeling. Fear, scapegoating (blaming and fear of others) and building up a hatred for those scapegoats, does not take a whole lot of skill or thinking on the part of anyone. People can be whipped up to believe a lot of things if a crowd reaches critical mass. Hold a rally, put enough shills in the crowd shouting slogans and the groupthink begins to take shape.




    Nazi Ideological Theory

    "According to Mein Kampf (My Struggle), Hitler developed his political theories after carefully observing the policies of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. He was born as a citizen of the Empire, and believed that ethnic and linguistic diversity had weakened it. Further, he saw democracy as a destabilizing force, because it placed power in the hands of ethnic minorities, who he claimed had incentives to further "weaken and destabilize" the Empire."

    "The Nazi rationale was heavily invested in the militarist belief that great nations grow from military power, which in turn grows "naturally" from "rational, civilized cultures." Hitler's calls appealed to disgruntled German Nationalists, eager to save face for the failure of World War I, and to salvage the militaristic nationalist mindset of that previous era. After Austria and Germany's defeat of World War I, many Germans still had heartfelt ties to the goal of creating a greater Germany, and thought that the use of military force to achieve it was necessary."

    "Many placed the blame for Germany's misfortunes on those whom they perceived, in one way or another, to have sabotaged the goal of national victory. Jews and communists became the ideal scapegoats for Germans deeply invested in a German Nationalist ideology."

    "Hitler's Nazi theory also claimed that the Aryan race is a master race, superior to all other races, that a nation is the highest creation of a race, and great nations (literally large nations) were the creation of great races. These nations developed cultures that naturally grew from races with "natural good health, and aggressive, intelligent, courageous traits." The weakest nations, Hitler said were those of impure or mongrel races, because they have divided, quarrelling, and therefore weak cultures. Worst of all were seen to be the parasitic Untermensch (Subhumans), mainly Jews, but also Gypsies, homosexuals, disabled and so called anti-socials, all of whom were considered lebensunwertes Leben (Lifeunworthy Life) due to their perceived deficiency and inferiority. The role of homosexuals during the Holocaust are controversial among historians. Some, like the International Committee for Holocaust Truth and authors Scott Lively and Kevin E. Abrams in "The Pink Swastika: Homosexuality in the Nazi Party", defend the perspective that many homosexuals were involved in the inner circle of the Nazi party: Ernst Röhm of the SA, Horst Wessel, Max Bielas, and others. This perspective is denounced as hateful propaganda by most homosexual associations and groups, stirring heated debates and accusations of censorship and "hate-speech" from both sides."

    "People of the Eastern European Russian-dominated Slavic descent were also seen as subhuman, but only marginally parasitic, because they had their own land and nations, though many of them lived in German countries such as Austria, which Hitler saw as an ethnic invasion of Germanic Lebensraum by foreign populations who would have incentive to force Austria's loyalty to their lands of ethnic and cultural origin."

    "According to Nazism, it is an obvious mistake to permit or encourage multilingualism and multiculturalism within a nation. Fundamental to the Nazi goal was the unification of all German-speaking peoples, "unjustly" divided into different Nation States. Hitler claimed that nations that could not defend their territory did not deserve it. Slave races, he thought of as less-worthy to exist than "master races." In particular, if a master race should require room to live (Lebensraum), he thought such a race should have the right to displace the inferior indigenous races. Hitler draws parallels between Lebensraum and the American ethnic cleansing and relocation policies towards the Native Americans, which he saw as key to the success of the US."

    "Races without homelands," Hitler claimed, were "parasitic races," and the richer the members of a "parasitic race" are, the more "virulent" the parasitism was thought to be. A "master race" could therefore, according to the Nazi doctrine, easily strengthen itself by eliminating "parasitic races" from its homeland. This was the given rationalization for the Nazi's later oppression and elimination of Jews and Gypsies. Despite the popularity of Hitler and his living space doctrine, some Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS soldiers found the duty repugnant. Only a small fraction of them were actively involved in genocide."

    "Hitler extended his rationalizations into religious doctrine, claiming that those who agreed with and taught his "truths," were "true" or "master" religions, because they would "create mastery" by avoiding comforting lies. Those that preach love and tolerance, "in contravention to the facts," were said to be "slave" or "false" religions. The man who recognizes these "truths," Hitler continued, was said to be a "natural leader," and those who deny it were said to be "natural slaves." "Slaves," especially intelligent ones, he claimed were always attempting to hinder masters by promoting false religious and political doctrines."


    Nazi Ideological Theory



    I think it is important to study that NAZIism was not initially popular and it was not like all the extreme entities of it formulated and gained support overnight. The hate and violence built over time, the prison and concentration camps were not built the same day or same year that the NAZI Party was founded and without a worldwide economic depression and struggles to recover, NAZIism might never have been able to build, because it would not have had disaffected people to "sell" the idea that others (the scapegoats) were to blame for it.

    Current day NAZIs may not be doing the exact same things or the most extreme and violent things the 30's and 40's era NAZIs were, but many of the same ideological markers are there and perhaps the idea for those that do not want to see another era like the 30's and 40's in terms of the worst parts of it, is to resist those who want to build on those sorts of ideologies in the same way the NAZIs of that era did, taking their ideology from barely noticed, to the height of hell, then defeat and shame for those and the nations that participated in those sorts of ideologies.


    The following describes Hilter's thoughts on who must be reached out to, in order for propaganda to work. It DID work for him, but he didn't take Germany or the world out of the mess he claimed his leadership would take them out of. Instead, he took Germany and the world into the depths of hell and lots of shame for his nation. He even committed suicide rather than face the people of the nation and the world he took to hell.

    http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch06.html

    Violence and hate seem to beget only violence and hate. I don't believe the antifa who condone and use violence to "resist" any they believe to be fascist in our society are any better than the fascists, but I also do not believe it is a good idea to NOT educate people about where groups that condone anything close to the same ideologies that were condoned by the NAZIs or any other group like them and where such things can lead. Trying to play down or dismiss those who claim to be NAZIs in 2017 does not seem to be a great way to educate people to where such groups could lead, simply because they are not running around wearing uniforms (do swastika tattoos count?) or making people wear badges to identify their religion or some other "grouping" that is "to blame" for the ills of "working class" people. Just my opinion, for all it might be worth.

    It could be that there are some people who have an inherited fear that some imagined "purity" of "race" or other features will be lost with "mixing". While there are many cultures and religions that have long traditions and customs of pairing "like" humans (people of most or all the same characteristics, but gender, obviously), there are some that seem to take that to an unacceptable extreme and whether the NAZIs were sincere in that regard or used it as a means to attract members to their party, it could be t thread (of fear of loss of whatever identity) that continues inherently in some.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/large...america-2013-8
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 8th September 2017 at 07:06 PM.
    Thanks from BitterPill and Madeline

  9. #39
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    50,190
    Thanks
    29208

    From
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    "WTF is a 21st century American "Nazi"?"

    Umm... I wanted to consider this for a little while, but it seems to me the most correct answer is "the same old, tired irrational hatred and wrongheadedness..."

    "... but with a Twitter account..."

    Thx
    But just being a misanthrope falls short, even as to a fascist.

    I suggest there has to be a stroing, stupid belief in racial purity and racial superiorioty.

    So,.,, have these would-be American Nazis had themselves DNA tested to assure that they ARE "racially pure"?

    And....if racism is all you believe in, no matter whether you burn with the heat of a 1,000 suns, aren't you just a white supremacist?

    Is it possible to be both an American Nazi AND a "zionist" or dedicated ally to Israel?

    I'm not sure you get to substitute another group for the Jews of the Mein Kampf, who are "responsible" for everything that sucks about being you.

    Nope. N9t
    Last edited by Madeline; 8th September 2017 at 01:34 PM.

  10. #40
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    63,632
    Thanks
    44115

    From
    So. Md.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Yeah it was Bund I was referring to.

    He was the American leader of the movement.

    At the time many people saw Hitler as a savior of the economy for what he was doing and thought that was the way to go.

    They saw the government taking care of its people which was the draw for the left.

    Conservatives had different economic ideas so didn't really buy into it.

    It wasn't about hate or race it was about the Great Depression.
    The Nazi party's seizure of power breathed new life into the movement. In July 1933, the Friends of New Germany held its first convention in Chicago, with the grandiose goal of unifying the millions of German-Americans under its banner. The group was no less hostile to Jews or leftists than were its counterparts in Germany. The historian Sander A. Diamond has suggested that skilled workers left economically insecure by the Depression formed the core of its membership. By April 1934, the Chicago chapter reportedly had 500 members, including 40 storm troopers that performed military drills each Thursday.
    The Bund did not go unchallenged in Chicago. In September 1937, the Chicago Daily Times ran a ten-part series on the group. Two German-American brothers, James and John Metcalfe, went undercover and quickly rose in its ranks. Backed by the Bund's own malignant propaganda, they characterized the organization as an "alien army" that considered not only Jews and Communists as its enemies, but also the Catholic Church and New Deal liberals. One Bundist told John Metcalfe that he had witnessed "men dumped out of windows and killed" in Germany. "The day will come over here when Jews get the same treatment on the street they get in Germany," he said. The exposé intensified pressure for the federal government to investigate the group, particularly its ties to the German government.
    https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicag...t?oid=21376284

    They were most certainly NOT Democrats or liberals by any stretch of the imagination.
    Thanks from BitterPill and Madeline

Page 4 of 24 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 9th February 2017, 01:25 PM
  2. Replies: 28
    Last Post: 1st December 2016, 08:28 AM
  3. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 24th June 2015, 11:11 PM
  4. This IS the 21st century...right?
    By Friday13 in forum Civil Rights
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 4th October 2014, 07:31 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 18th July 2011, 04:52 AM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed