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Thread: Russians want to divide us

  1. #31
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    When have we ever agreed?

    We have two parties in this nation with different ideas.

    Its been that way forever.

    How will Russia make that worse?

    Do you think you or I will ever have the same ideas?

    That has nothing to do with Russia.

    Did the massive division under Obama or the hate towards Bush have anything to do with Russia?

    Are you implying the left would have ever agreed with Sarah Palin if Russia did nothing?
    Yes, we have always had differences of opinion but right now there is a wide, deep chasm between the two sides. The last time it was so wide and deep we had a war.

    Do you think the CIA and the FBI and all the intelligence agencies around the world are full of shit and you're right? Russia has been working to undermine us for a long time, but the internet and social media give them tools to do it much more efficiently and much more quickly. I've noticed over time that you have not delved into this phenomenon in order to try to understand it. You always just dismiss it out of hand. You don't have enough knowledge about it to even form an opinion.

    And you are correct that you and I will never have the same ideas. I find it difficult to believe that you work in academia. Your thinking is kind of shallow and you're not particularly curious. Oh, you'll bring a topic up and ask about it, but you don't bother to try to get a decent understanding about. You go off of gut feelings an awful lot. And once your gut has told you something you won't let it go no matter what facts you're presented with.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Guess you haven't noticed the recent divisions in the nation already, none of which have to do with Russia.

    We already scream 'leftist' or 'rwnj', unless you are implying the people saying those were all influenced by Russia.

    Do you honestly think we generally agree on politics currently?

    Maddow and Limbaugh would be getting along if not for Russia?

    Please.
    There have always been divisions--since the earliest days of our Republic. We've managed to disagree without breaking apart, which appears to be the new goal of Russian interlopers and American extremists.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pureinheart View Post
    ...so are you saying that people are incapable of fact-checking? Seriously, the previous administration did a great job of 'dividing' America- why do you think former President Obama was called the 'Divider in Chief'... Russia could not hold a candle to that.
    Incapable...of course not. But many people would rather dismiss the fact-checkers rather than admit that anyone in their tribe got something wrong. And I won't even respond to your "Divider in Chief" comment--considering our current president.

  4. #34
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Yes, we have always had differences of opinion but right now there is a wide, deep chasm between the two sides. The last time it was so wide and deep we had a war.

    Do you think the CIA and the FBI and all the intelligence agencies around the world are full of shit and you're right? Russia has been working to undermine us for a long time, but the internet and social media give them tools to do it much more efficiently and much more quickly. I've noticed over time that you have not delved into this phenomenon in order to try to understand it. You always just dismiss it out of hand. You don't have enough knowledge about it to even form an opinion.

    And you are correct that you and I will never have the same ideas. I find it difficult to believe that you work in academia. Your thinking is kind of shallow and you're not particularly curious. Oh, you'll bring a topic up and ask about it, but you don't bother to try to get a decent understanding about. You go off of gut feelings an awful lot. And once your gut has told you something you won't let it go no matter what facts you're presented with.
    It wasn't all the agencies, that was debunked.

    And I don't work in Academia, I work for a university.

    And nobody can present with a scenario where Russia causes a deeper divide.

    Look at the divide today with the NFL, that has nothing to do with Russia. We can't get more divided than we are.

    Look at the Vietnam war and the divide over that, or the Gulf War, or any political issue that comes up.

  5. #35
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    There have always been divisions--since the earliest days of our Republic. We've managed to disagree without breaking apart, which appears to be the new goal of Russian interlopers and American extremists.
    You think we are breaking apart and our government can no longer function?

  6. #36
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    It wasn't all the agencies, that was debunked.

    And I don't work in Academia, I work for a university.

    And nobody can present with a scenario where Russia causes a deeper divide.

    Look at the divide today with the NFL, that has nothing to do with Russia. We can't get more divided than we are.

    Look at the Vietnam war and the divide over that, or the Gulf War, or any political issue that comes up.
    No, it was all of the agencies. They all agree.

    Daniel Coats, the director of national intelligence, said Friday there is no dissent inside U.S. intelligence agencies about the conclusion that Russia used hacking and fake news to interfere in the 2016 presidential election — despite comments by his boss, President Donald Trump, that have seemed to cast some doubt about the unanimity.

    In an interview with NBC Nightly News anchor Lester Holt at the Aspen Security Forum, Coats said that the reason only four of 17 intelligence agencies signed onto the January assessment describing the Russian effort is that the other agencies were not involved in gathering and analyzing the intelligence.

    On July 5, Trump suggested that there had been a misunderstanding of the extent to which the assessment was endorsed by the entire American spy apparatus.

    “Let me just start off by saying I heard it was 17 agencies,” Trump said when asked about the intelligence assessment. “I said, ‘Boy, that’s a lot.’ Do we even have that many intelligence agencies, right? Let’s check it. And we did some very heavy research. It turned out to be three or four — it wasn’t 17 — and many of your compatriots had to change their reporting, and they had to apologize, and they had to correct.”

    The "three or four" agencies referred to by Trump are the CIA, the FBI, the National Security Agency and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, all of which were named in a January public report assessing with “high confidence” that Russia interfered in the election.

    Other intelligence agencies, such as the U.S. Coast Guard’s, were not involved, Coats said. But, he added, there was no disagreement inside the intelligence community.
    Coats said he had no doubt that the Russians “are trying to undermine Western democracy.”

    "I think they caught us a little bit behind the curve,” he said. “They caught us a little bit asleep in terms of the capabilities that they could do."
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ddling-n785481

    Just another misunderstanding and misinterpretation by the right wing.

    You'd think spending so much time at a university something would rub off.

    You have been shown repeatedly how Russia is spreading lies and fake news in social media targeting certain sectors of the American public.

    Russia’s new and improved online Active Measures shifted aggressively toward U.S. audiences in late 2014 and throughout 2015. They launched divisive messages on nearly any disaffected U.S. audience. Whether it be claims of the U.S. military declaring martial law during the Jade Helm exercise, chaos amongst Black Lives matter protests, or tensions in the Bundy Ranch standoff in Oregon, Russia’s state-sponsored outlets of RT and Sputnik News, characterized as “white” influence efforts in information warfare, churned out manipulated truths, false news stories, and conspiracies. Four general themes outlined these propaganda messages:

    ∑ Political Messages—Designed to tarnish democratic leaders and undermine democratic institutions∑ Financial Propaganda—Created to weaken confidence in financial markets, capitalist economies and Western companies∑ Social Unrest—Crafted to amplify divisions amongst democratic populaces to undermine citizen trust and the fabric of society∑ Global Calamity—Pushed to incite fear of global demise such as nuclear war or catastrophic climate change

    From these overt Russian propaganda outlets, a wide range of English-language conspiratorial websites (“gray” outlets), some of which mysteriously operate from Eastern Europe and are curiously led by pro-Russian editors of unknown financing, sensationalize conspiracies and fake news published by white outlets further amplifying their reach in U.S. audiences. American-looking social-media accounts, the hecklers, honeypots, and hackers described above, working alongside automated bots further amplify and disseminate Russian propaganda amongst unwitting Westerners. These covert, “black” operations influence target-audience opinions with regards to Russia and undermine confidence in Western elected leaders, public officials, mainstream-media personalities, academic experts, and democracy itself.
    Clint Watts' Testimony: Russia?s Info War on the U.S. Started in 2014

    They're targeting you and they've been very successful. You're not even aware of it.

    As I stated previously. Yes, there have been issues we've disagreed on. It is unusual in our history to be as far apart as we are now. You have been encouraging it and dismissing it. Russians are working to widen and deepen the divide. Pretending otherwise is just silly.
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  7. #37
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    You might want to tell the NYTs that they shouldn't have issued a correction for saying 17 agencies agreed on it then.

    NYT Issues Correction On Russia Article | The Daily Caller

  8. #38
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I learn from news reports that Russian efforts to send divisive messages through out social media continues unabated since the election. It's been the goal of the Russian state to get Americans to divide up and thus become less powerful and wealthy. This would leave them more free to assert their own power in Europe and Asia.

    Is it not odd that we have posters--often posters who appear quite sophisticated but who provide relatively little evidence to support their positions-- here at PH pushing political and legal agendas that would result in a divided and weaker US?

    Positions like "The Supreme Court can't block states from violating the Federal Constitution" or "Our legal system has been in violation of the Constitution since 1803."
    and on Facebook. Ever wonder where the absurd memes on Facebook come from? Yet, they get accepted at face value and passed on. "Do you think school children should be allowed to salute the flag, even if it offends some people?"

    First, sure, everyone thinks that, but school children do salute the flag, even if a few wackos are "offended." If only we'd stop and analyze what is being said, we'd be less easily manipulated.

  9. #39
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    You think we are breaking apart and our government can no longer function?
    Well, if they can't raise the debt ceiling, the government will be shut down once again.

    Name another western democracy that has shut down the government.

  10. #40
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    That Russian twitter issue was aimed at making liberals hate conservatives. They have other sites dedicated to making conservatives hate liberals.
    All they would need to do is fan the flames of existing hatreds.

    However, the problem is that some people are buying into the nonsense and want America to balkanize - or already did want it. Conservatives hate liberals more than they hate America's rivals, and that means they hate America more than other, foreign powers. The same is true of liberals who may want this balkanization as well. People (irrespective of political stripe) need to realize that their neighbors are not their enemies (even if rivals for political power), and that foreign powers generally will more interested in their own welfare and interests (hence the word) than ours.

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