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Thread: The ACA and Single Payer

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    Senior Member Meursault's Avatar
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    The ACA and Single Payer

    I've had the unfortunate experience of "debating" more left wing liberals recently concerning the ACA (on a different site). They seem to think it's a step on the path to a single payer system or Medicare for all. If anyone on this site subscribes to that view can you explain, in detail, how the ACA will achieve this?

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    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Single Payer is it's own little monster. People bandy about saying it's the greatest thing in the world yet they don't realize the severe problems it comes with.

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    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meursault View Post
    I've had the unfortunate experience of "debating" more left wing liberals recently concerning the ACA (on a different site). They seem to think it's a step on the path to a single payer system or Medicare for all. If anyone on this site subscribes to that view can you explain, in detail, how the ACA will achieve this?

    Incrementally, over an extended period of time, would be my best guess. How long the process will play out will be determined by the outcomes of the next several election cycles. I suspect that many of us will probably never live to see it happen. Then again, that thought may be comforting to some of us.
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    Senior Member Meursault's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    Incrementally, over an extended period of time, would be my best guess. How long the process will play out will be determined by the outcomes of the next several election cycles. I suspect that many of us will probably never live to see it happen. Then again, that thought may be comforting to some of us.
    How so? Ho will it incrementally morph into a single payer system?

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    Junior Member Railunder's Avatar
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    The only way that I can see ACA becoming a single payer system is if the private sector insurance companies find ways to abuse the system out of greed. Just like social security that received similar criticisms in its early days, I don't think we can foresee all of the possible future permutations that will cause tweaking the law. One payer system is just too close to socialism for acceptance in the foreseeable future.

    Here is an excerpt from an article in Reuters:

    After the nation’s major social program finally became law, critics regularly blamed it for a slowing economy and a swelling federal bureaucracy. Fierce congressional opposition led to the formation of a blue-ribbon panel to overhaul the measure. Obamacare in 2013? Not quite. It was Social Security in 1937.

    Meanwhile, after enrollment began for the far-reaching health insurance initiative, administrators wrestled with myriad, unexpected problems. Implementation, according to the man who oversaw the introduction of Medicare in 1965, “took the form of a whole year of consultation with literally hundreds of people in identified areas of concern.”

    The tortuous, often controversial implementation of both Medicare and Social Security serves as an early template for the current controversies over the Obamacare rollout. The ultimate success of those social programs ought to calm the overheated atmosphere surrounding the first days of enrollment for the Affordable Care Act.
    What about Social Security?s rollout? | The Great Debate

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    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Single Payer is it's own little monster. People bandy about saying it's the greatest thing in the world yet they don't realize the severe problems it comes with.
    Could you elaborate on the severe problems?

    That's the other side of this perverse coin. Those in favor of it think it is a step towards socialized medicine, and those opposed say it is too. So both sides agree that it is something that it clearly isn't, which for me is the red flag (no pun intended) that the fix is in. No matter which team wins this war, the private insurance cartel will end up on top.

    In this game, they own both teams. Pretty clever if you ask me.
    Last edited by StanStill; 23rd July 2014 at 06:04 PM.

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    One would only hope it would morph into a single payer system, but no. In order for that to happen, Congress needs to pass, directly, a Medicare-For-All bill. I'm optimistic it can happen, but I'll wait to see it happen.

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    It's not easy to make sense how or why a bill that mandates employer-based health insurance would actually be intended to separate health insurance from employment... unless it's by causing and/or allowing the problem to intensify further, making Americans poorer and more desperate and sing in unison for it. Kind of a method of torture. Cause them to endure pain until they give in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    There is no conceivable way it is "here to stay." It exacerbates the problem until we squeal for government to rescue us once and for all. In the process we'll all become poorer and the insurance industry will become richer before government finally takes them over. It's the worst thing we could have done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Railunder View Post
    The only way that I can see ACA becoming a single payer system is if the private sector insurance companies find ways to abuse the system out of greed.
    "Find ways?" They're basically mandated to be abusive. Mandated to cover things that aren't pertinent to insurance, to exclude no one, their plans that are already too expensive are subsidized further, and their customer base is guaranteed by federal law -- all of these things virtually assure continued insurance premium cost growth. The law itself mandates abuse.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 23rd July 2014 at 06:37 PM.
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    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    Could you elaborate on the severe problems?

    That's the other side of this perverse coin. Those in favor of it think it is a step towards socialized medicine, and those opposed say it is too. So both sides agree that it is something that it clearly isn't, which for me is the red flag (no pun intended) that the fix is in. No matter which team wins this war, the private insurance cartel will end up on top.

    In this game, they own both teams. Pretty clever if you ask me.
    Once you have single-payer your coverage will be determined by whichever party is in office.

    The republicans have control during a period and they decide that contraception is no longer going to be covered so BOOM, you lose contraception coverage. Democrats are in power and all of a sudden abortions are covered.

    It takes the choice out of the people's hands and gives it to government.
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    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Once you have single-payer your coverage will be determined by whichever party is in office.

    The republicans have control during a period and they decide that contraception is no longer going to be covered so BOOM, you lose contraception coverage. Democrats are in power and all of a sudden abortions are covered.

    It takes the choice out of the people's hands and gives it to government.
    I don't understand why people think that any collective action must necessarily be handed over to the government where it will live, on it's own, forever. In a functioning democracy, the citizens should be able to create the institutions and change them when they need changing, right? Instead of handing over socialized medicine to the Evil Medical Dictator that you are alluding to, why not let decisions be made locally based on local needs? It's almost as if the right (and many who think of themselves as left) of the US can't seem to see any other possibilities besides centralized government authority and centralized corporate authority.
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