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Thread: Any moves yet toward disincentivizing the hiring of unauthorized workers?

  1. #31
    Nuisance Factor Yeti 8 Jungle Swing Champion, YetiSports 4 - Albatross Overload Champion, YetiSports7 - Snowboard FreeRide Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion boontito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    There is nothing wrong with allowing migrant workers for seasonal agricultural needs. Just needs to be done legally and in an organized/structured fashion. When the work ends the migrants go home. (to a degree believe that is the way it works now.)

    Those that break the rules/commitment are the ones that should and need to be held accountable. That applies to both the worker and the employer. But a complete change in standards and mindset will take a little time. Am probably thinking more in terms of urban restaurant and service workers than agriculture.
    I'm largely agreeing with you. My main position though is that if the idea is a harsh punishment is needed, and I don't have a problem with that really, then it should be harsh on both the employee and employer end.

  2. #32
    Wrinkly Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    For the employer, the UK has a civil penalty of up to $25,000 (£20,000) per unauthorised employee. If criminal charges are brought, then there's up to five years prison time plus unlimited fines. illegal employees are deported.

  3. #33
    Veteran Member Dragonfly5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    Agree on the first part of your post. Would add a caveat to the second.

    Those who hire illegals should be held accountable. But would like to see the penalty element be graduated. The practice of hiring undocumented workers has become so common and ingrained in our society that it going to take a little time to undo. There needs to be a practical/realistic approach to the problem.

    First offense should be a fine and a warning. That should be the wake-up call. A second or third offense penalty would be notably harsher.
    So when it is the business owner who hires the illegal worker is, he is to be introduced to the law gradually, however, if the illegal worker is snatched up. He is to be deported immediately, no graduated scale for him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    That's some fancy pretzel logic you have there.

    No. It would be holding individuals accountable for violating the law. Employers are free to select the best choice from the candidate pool. But persons in this country illegally are not eligible to be in that pool.
    Fancy pretzel logic? Only someone with an IQ lower than their shoe size would agree with that.

    If one employer can hire a foreign laborer, but another industry, or even another employer, cannot how does that not violate the 14th Amendment?

    Are you suggesting that we become slaves to statutory law? If so, there would have been no America, no Rosa Parks, and no individual Right to keep and bear Arms... plus a lot of other important things that happened because the people reclaimed a Right they already had.

  5. #35
    My Kingdom for a covfefe Panzareta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HadEnough2 View Post
    Trump has his little Trumpsters are so mind fucked that they're still chanting "Lock Her Up."

    Farmers are worried and so are their pickers. I'm sure ICE will have a field day (pun intended) all over the US any day now. Then who will pick the crops? White unemployed people?

    One more policy Trump hasn't thought through.
    Domestic farm labor of all kinds tends to be too slow, too sloppy in their practice, too easily distracted when working. And unable to put in the grueling hours and off hours often at night under inadequate artificial lights..... that is required for their employers to strike it rich at their expense.
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    My Kingdom for a covfefe Panzareta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humorme View Post
    Fancy pretzel logic? Only someone with an IQ lower than their shoe size would agree with that.

    If one employer can hire a foreign laborer, but another industry, or even another employer, cannot how does that not violate the 14th Amendment?

    Are you suggesting that we become slaves to statutory law? If so, there would have been no America, no Rosa Parks, and no individual Right to keep and bear Arms... plus a lot of other important things that happened because the people reclaimed a Right they already had.
    Calm down.

    Let me know where in the constitution it mentions employers and businesses? Also let me know where in the constitution it mentions capitalism at all.

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    Up to a $10K fine and 10 years in prison for each illegal employed is pretty stiff punishment. How do you punish an employer who's been duped by fake/stolen identification? If stiff penalties aren't dissuading violators, then we must expect the federal government to physically catch them...there are over 25 million businesses in the US.

    Here's a better idea. Instead of misplacing blame on capitalism (because that's basically what this is) why don't we stiffen up border security infrastructure and actually enforce immigration laws to the letter....you know, clamp down, versus putting out the Welcome Mat with inviting/forgiving rhetoric and sanctuary cities that make illegals feel more secure in the knowledge that if they can get here, they can stay here?
    Last edited by webrockk; 18th March 2017 at 11:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    Up to a $10K fine and 10 years in prison for each illegal employed is pretty stiff punishment. How do you punish an employer who's been duped by fake/stolen identification? If stiff penalties aren't dissuading violators, then we must expect the federal government to physically catch them...there are over 25 million businesses in the US.

    Here's a better idea. Instead of misplacing blame on capitalism (because that's basically what this is) why don't we stiffen up border security infrastructure and actually enforce immigration laws to the letter....you know, clamp down, versus putting out the Welcome Mat with inviting/forgiving rhetoric and sanctuary cities that make illegals feel more secure in the knowledge that if they can get here, they can stay here?
    Why do you want to punish one law violator and not the other? I think both should be punished. Why are you in favor of giving these criminals a pass?

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    Quote Originally Posted by boontito View Post
    Why do you want to punish one law violator and not the other? I think both should be punished. Why are you in favor of giving these criminals a pass?
    Where I'm a giving one law breaker a pass? I fully support the punishments levied against employers who willfully flout the law...I just don't think the federal government has the resources to catch them all....namely, because there are 25 million businesses... that a limited number of federal agents would be responsible for checking in on multiple times a year, but also because the underground economy is quite adept at providing illegals with passable fake/stolen identification which places undue burden on employers to ferret out.

    Expecting businesses to abide and enforce immigration laws for a federal government that, until recently, has not been particularly interested in doing is rather disingenuous. It's cynical and politically expedient misplaced blame. We can't very well place the lionshare of the illegal immigration problem on businesses...on capitalism, really... when we have leftists at the highest level of government actively luring them here with their crocodile tears, amnesty rhetoric, Dream Acts and sanctuary cities.
    Last edited by webrockk; 18th March 2017 at 01:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    Where I'm a giving one law breaker a pass? I fully support the punishments levied against employers who willfully flout the law...I just don't think the federal government has the resources to catch them all....namely, because there are 25 million businesses... that a limited number of federal agents would be responsible for checking in on multiple times a year, but also because the underground economy is quite adept at providing illegals with passable fake/stolen identification which places undue burden on employers to ferret out.

    Expecting businesses to abide and enforce immigration laws for a federal government that, until recently, has not been particularly interested in doing is rather disingenuous. It's cynical and politically expedient misplaced blame. We can't very well place the lionshare of the illegal immigration problem on businesses...on capitalism, really... when we have leftists at the highest level of government actively luring them here with their crocodile tears, amnesty rhetoric, Dream Acts and sanctuary cities.
    If commerce is too complicated for them, maybe they shouldn't go into business. Sorry, you can side with criminals all you want, I'm not going down that route. Telling the state trooper you weren't aware of what the speed limit was doesn't mean you didn't break the law and won't be ticketed.
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