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Thread: Funding Single Payer

  1. #21
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
    I know, and look what a bloated inefficient mess it is.

    If only government wasn't forcing us to pay those insurance companies...

    It has its pluses and minuses. Just like the free market system. I prefer the latter.

    Yet ever politician leaves office exponentially wealthier while our public debt skyrockets.

    I would leave nothing off the table in an attempt to bbecome fiscally solvent. After all, if our currency collapses, we'll be in no position to help anyone.
    Our currency is in no danger of collapsing. It's the strongest on earth.

    The national debt is a concern, but only as to carrying charges. Too much of our tax revenue is needed to pay it, and as that figure rises, together with shrinking labor, etc., there is a breaking point.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    I'm not. This is an opinion many leading economists share.
    Economists hope businesses will profit share with employees if they don't have to buy them insurance? Sounds like wishful thinking to me. Some may. Many won't.

  3. #23
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
    Economists hope businesses will profit share with employees if they don't have to buy them insurance? Sounds like wishful thinking to me. Some may. Many won't.
    Exactly. Wages are expected to rise, although not across the board.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Our currency is in no danger of collapsing. It's the strongest on earth.
    It's the strongest on earth because our military supports the petrol-dollar. Do you support the new budget that expands military spending and the enforcement of said petrol dollar?
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    The national debt is a concern, but only as to carrying charges. Too much of our tax revenue is needed to pay it, and as that figure rises, together with shrinking labor, etc., there is a breaking point.
    Indeed, and we can't print our way out of it. Growth is our best bet, but that requires unbridling capitalism. Or we can cut spending to levels below revenue and apply the excess to the debt. Or we can raise taxes and chase wealth out of the country.

  5. #25
    Shiny Purple Member namvet69's Avatar
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    This was the original ACA plan before the right killed it. Obama envisioned an expansion of Medicare by a payroll tax and other measures. No one out-everybody in. That along with getting a handle on costs and reigning in enormous profits for big insurance would have a dual effect, cost control and the revenue to fund it. That's pretty much the model of every successful universal system world-wide. The current AHCA follows the old free market approach that has never worked anywhere on earth. Combined with protecting big insurance and zero demand on big Pharma and HMO's to lower costs puts the final nail in the box. But what it does do is proliferate monster profits and throw the working poor to the wolves. In fact the only people not hurt by that plan are the same folks getting a huge tax break while this administration maintains there is not enough revenue for healthcare or human services to the elderly, veterans, the poor and the disabled. It's the most vicious, mean-spirited thing I've ever seen in my 66 years.

  6. #26
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
    It's the strongest on earth because our military supports the petrol-dollar. Do you support the new budget that expands military spending and the enforcement of said petrol dollar?

    Indeed, and we can't print our way out of it. Growth is our best bet, but that requires unbridling capitalism. Or we can cut spending to levels below revenue and apply the excess to the debt. Or we can raise taxes and chase wealth out of the country.
    This is very antiquated thinking on the matter. A modest transaction fee on Wall Street trades is not going to drive capital out of the country.

    The real shift is off the taxpayer and his employer and onto government, which will reduce costs by about 50% almost immediately.

    You are also failing to consider, if wealth is to be exported, where is it going? There's no other first world country without universal care. Most business sectors can't be replicated in second and third world nations.

    You can't profit off home delivery of Proctor & Gamble goods in India.
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  7. #27
    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    How will it be funded? A hike in payroll taxes is my understanding. How much of a hike? Will half the hike be pawned off on employers? What might that increase do to wages and employment opportunities? What about lower wage earners? ("regressive"?).

    An individual's (and their employers') contribution to the Medicare system is accrued over their working lifetime, typically accessible only upon reaching the age of 65, and typically utilized for about 10 years for males and 17 years for females (and it's still deeply underwater)....Single Payer would make communal healthcare dollars available to an individual for their entire lives.

    What sort of cost control measures could we expect? Would...or should... individuals who engage in risky behavior be assessed a surcharge? how about the ridiculously high percentage of people who can't put down their fork? drug addicts and alcoholics? unsafe sex fetishists?

    Let's discuss it. Let's do some basic math.

    flat tax... everyone gives up the same % of income. Rich and poor alike... all give up skin to the game. No more exemption, no more loop holes.
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  8. #28
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syrenn View Post
    flat tax... everyone gives up the same % of income. Rich and poor alike... all give up skin to the game. No more exemption, no more loop holes.
    Fine idea, but the 0.01% will never agree to it.

  9. #29
    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Fine idea, but the 0.01% will never agree to it.

    more like the 49% who dont pay a cent into federal taxes would go for it.....

  10. #30
    the "good" prag pragmatic's Avatar
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    Healthcare really is complex.

    For the sake of honest debate. Does anyone proposing Single Payer see any downside to that option??


    Is it all really that "simple"....?
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