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Thread: Funding Single Payer

  1. #41
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    Transferring the bills to the federal government (taxpayers) would not incentivize the healthcare provider industry to cut prices...it would do just the opposite. It would act similarly to what the taxpayer backed student loan system is doing to the price of a university education.
    It eliminates all the insurance functions, though. No more audits, no claims processing, no underwriting, no sales agents, etc.

    This is where most of the cost savings will be, and it's huge.

    Also, no more insurance fraud. Also big.
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  2. #42
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    "preventative care"? If people are okay with paying high risk premiums for their poor health habits now, what makes you think people would change their behaviors because government manages the financial side of healthcare? America's obesity rate is ridiculous....how would spreading the costs associated with their healthcare to everyone inspire them to put down their forks?

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    For an individual who earns $35K per year, fully funding the left's collectivist entitlements -- Social Security and Single Payer -- with payroll taxes would cost roughly $6720 a year. For a household income of $55K (roughly the median), payroll taxes for Social Security and Single Payer would be about $10,560.

    This does not include federal taxes levied on income, sales taxes, state income taxes, fuel taxes, property taxes, vehicle registration/value taxes, etc, etc.

    Utopia is not cheap.
    Last edited by webrockk; 19th March 2017 at 05:25 PM.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    For an individual who earns $35K per year, fully funding the left's collectivist entitlements -- Social Security and Single Payer -- with payroll taxes would cost roughly $6720 a year. For a household income of $55K, (roughly the median) payroll taxes for Social Security and Single Payer would be about $10,560.

    This does not include federal taxes levied on income, sales taxes, state income taxes, fuel taxes, property taxes, auto registration/value taxes, etc, etc.

    Utopia is not cheap.
    And it will be shitty healthcare to boot.
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  5. #45
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    "preventative care"? If people are okay with paying high risk premiums for their poor health habits now, what makes you think people would change their behaviors because government manages the financial side of healthcare? America's obesity rate is ridiculous....how would spreading the costs associated with their healthcare to everyone inspire them to put down their forks?
    All insurance is risk-sharing. If that's your objection, only forcing everyone to pay cash will address it.

    Preventive care is cheaper and is consistent with the goals of UHC: a healthy population.

    The obesity epidemic is serious, and must be fought against Big Ag and Big Food, more than health care, to see any improvements.
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  6. #46
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by libertariat720 View Post
    And it will be shitty healthcare to boot.
    To many, it will be fabulous care, but not to all.

  7. #47
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    So, will doubling payroll taxes do it? Americans spend about $2.5 trillion on healthcare. Current payroll taxes generate about $1.13 trillion. Medicare/Medicaid's roughly $940 billion price tag would presumably be rolled into Single Payer. Social Security's annual price tag is almost $890 billion.

    A quick calculation reveals a current payroll tax shortfall of $700 billion every year. Subtracting Medicare/Medicaid's $940 billion price tag from the $2.5 trillion spent on healthcare would leave an additional $1.56 trillion shortfall if we went to a Single Payer system without hiking payroll taxes.

    So, to "break even", payroll taxes would need to generate $890 billion for Social Security (currently severely underfunded) and $2.26 trillion for Single Payer, for a grand total of $3.15 trillion. Again, current payroll taxes generate roughly $1.13 trillion. Which looks to me like they'd basically need to be almost tripled.

    Now, let's say Single Payer eliminates the insurance "middle man"...which is reported to account for about $500 billion of the $2.5 trillion. Taking that off of the $3.15 trillion leaves $2.65 trillion...which would require payroll taxes to increase by roughly 2.5 times, or to just over 19% for you and 19% for your employer.

    are you boys and girls up for that?
    There is no reason why payroll taxes on middle class people would have to be the primary source of funding for UNC.

    As for what shape it would take, most likely, it'd be Medicare for all, not Medicaid. Most taxpayers would still have copays and deductibles.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    All insurance is risk-sharing. If that's your objection, only forcing everyone to pay cash will address it.

    Preventive care is cheaper and is consistent with the goals of UHC: a healthy population.

    The obesity epidemic is serious, and must be fought against Big Ag and Big Food, more than health care, to see any improvements.
    It is, but insurance levies a surcharge on higher than average risks. If you're a 16 year old lead foot with a 500 horsepower Corvette, your auto policy is going to cost more than a 55 year old's who has never had a speeding ticket or crashed their Buick minivans. If you build in a floodplain or tornado alley, your homeowners policy is going to be more expensive than someone who doesn't. If you're 85 and in the market for life insurance, a $200K policy is going to cost exponentially more than a 35 year old's. If you're 48, weigh 350 pounds, chain smoke Marlboros and drink a 5th of vodka a day, your health insurance premium is going to be, AND SHOULD BE, exponentially more expensive than a 25 year old marathon runner's.
    Last edited by webrockk; 18th March 2017 at 09:51 AM.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
    That's what government involvement historically does.

    Constitutionally speaking, correct.
    Then you are against selling health insurance across state lines?

    Making it a state issue would introduce more regulations and complications.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by libertariat720 View Post
    And it will be shitty healthcare to boot.
    exactly. There's even a thread bemoaning America's doctor shortage. I can't imagine Single Payer instigating a flood of people to spend hundreds of thousands to become doctors.

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