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Thread: Funding Single Payer

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by HadEnough2 View Post
    But taking the profit out would.
    eliminating profits gleaned by the health care insurance industry would only reduce the cost of healthcare to about $2 trillion. Surely you're not suggesting the healthcare provider industry should be non-profit...



    But making continuing education free would. College is free in China and India. I would hope we could be as good as that.
    How much would that little entitlement add to payroll taxes?
    Last edited by webrockk; 17th March 2017 at 09:10 PM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by syrenn View Post
    no exemptions for anyone.... if you make a dollar, you pay up 25% just like everyone else does. If you dont want to tax "the poor" ... then cut ALL social services by 30% to cover their share of the costs.
    Im sure you could be one of the lucky ducky poor too, if you made the effort.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    So, will doubling payroll taxes do it? Americans spend about $2.5 trillion on healthcare. Current payroll taxes generate about $1.13 trillion. Medicare/Medicaid's roughly $940 billion price tag would presumably be rolled into Single Payer. Social Security's annual price tag is almost $890 billion.

    A quick calculation reveals a current payroll tax shortfall of $700 billion every year. Subtracting Medicare/Medicaid's $940 billion price tag from the $2.5 trillion spent on healthcare would leave an additional $1.56 trillion shortfall if we went to a Single Payer system without hiking payroll taxes.

    So, to "break even", payroll taxes would need to generate $890 billion for Social Security (currently severely underfunded) and $2.26 trillion for Single Payer, for a grand total of $3.15 trillion. Again, current payroll taxes generate roughly $1.13 trillion. Which looks to me like they'd basically need to be almost tripled.

    Now, let's say Single Payer eliminates the insurance "middle man"...which is reported to account for about $500 billion of the $2.5 trillion. Taking that off of the $3.15 trillion leaves $2.65 trillion...which would require payroll taxes to increase by roughly 2.5 times, or to just over 19% for you and 19% for your employer.

    are you boys and girls up for that?
    You are forgetting the amount of money companies and employees, as well as , individuals are spending on health insurance now.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    How will it be funded? A hike in payroll taxes is my understanding. How much of a hike? Will half the hike be pawned off on employers? What might that increase do to wages and employment opportunities? What about lower wage earners? ("regressive"?).

    An individual's (and their employers') contribution to the Medicare system is accrued over their working lifetime, typically accessible only upon reaching the age of 65, and typically utilized for about 10 years for males and 17 years for females (and it's still deeply underwater)....Single Payer would make communal healthcare dollars available to an individual for their entire lives.

    What sort of cost control measures could we expect? Would...or should... individuals who engage in risky behavior be assessed a surcharge? how about the ridiculously high percentage of people who can't put down their fork? drug addicts and alcoholics? unsafe sex fetishists?

    Let's discuss it. Let's do some basic math.
    I didn't read the whole thread, fair question, I hope it gets a more serious response than the first 10 or 15.

    I don't know how it will be funded. Many of us are already paying for a healthcare plan from our employer, so subtract that an add a tax breaks even. Hopefully the increase in demand would drive prices down. Additional taxes on things such as fast food, liquor, tobacco products, soda, etc.....might be a possibility. I have never really heard an estimate of what additional revenue we would need to supply it.

    But I do know our country is capable of it, and I do think it will eventually happen.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    So, will doubling payroll taxes do it? Americans spend about $2.5 trillion on healthcare. Current payroll taxes generate about $1.13 trillion. Medicare/Medicaid's roughly $940 billion price tag would presumably be rolled into Single Payer. Social Security's annual price tag is almost $890 billion.

    A quick calculation reveals a current payroll tax shortfall of $700 billion every year. Subtracting Medicare/Medicaid's $940 billion price tag from the $2.5 trillion spent on healthcare would leave an additional $1.56 trillion shortfall if we went to a Single Payer system without hiking payroll taxes.

    So, to "break even", payroll taxes would need to generate $890 billion for Social Security (currently severely underfunded) and $2.26 trillion for Single Payer, for a grand total of $3.15 trillion. Again, current payroll taxes generate roughly $1.13 trillion. Which looks to me like they'd basically need to be almost tripled.

    Now, let's say Single Payer eliminates the insurance "middle man"...which is reported to account for about $500 billion of the $2.5 trillion. Taking that off of the $3.15 trillion leaves $2.65 trillion...which would require payroll taxes to increase by roughly 2.5 times, or to just over 19% for you and 19% for your employer.

    are you boys and girls up for that?
    Taxes funded 64.3 percent of total U.S. health spending in 2013. At present, GOVERNMENT spending on health care in the U.S. ($5,960 per capita, 11.2 percent of GDP) is higher than TOTAL spending on health care in Canada ($4,351, 10.2 percent of GDP) and every other country. (Himmelstein and Woolhandler, “The current and projected taxpayer shares of U.S. health costs,” American Journal of Public Health, 1/21/16).

    Single payer national health reform would save nearly $500 billion annually on paperwork and administration, enough to cover all of the uninsured and to eliminate deductibles, co-insurance, and co-pays for everyone. Administration consumes 25.3 percent of hospital costs in the U.S. ($215.4 billion in 2011), compared to 12.4 percent in Canada. Paying hospitals global “lump sum” payments would save $150 billion on hospital overhead alone. (Himmelstein et al., “A Comparison Of Hospital Administrative Costs In Eight Nations: US Costs Exceed All Others By Far,” Health Affairs, September 2014).

    http://www.pnhp.org/beyond_aca/Physi...Fact_Sheet.pdf
    These people, health care professionals, have a plan, and have done the research.

    Support the Physicians' Proposal for Single-Payer Health Care Reform | Physicians for a National Health Program
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    Maybe. Dunno.

    But when one googles the topic we see countries who have the systems have an amount of discontent.

    Switzerland is a country that comes to mind.
    Have you ever encountered any organization of human beings where there wasn't some expressed discontent?

    There is plenty of discontent with our system now, and the reason we have this system, is because there was plenty of discontent with the system as it was before the ACA.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    You are forgetting the amount of money companies and employees, as well as , individuals are spending on health insurance now.
    No, I'm not forgetting. I said American's spend $2.5 trillion on healthcare. That would be transferred to the Single Payer system.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    Transferring the bills to the federal government (taxpayers) would not incentivize the healthcare provider industry to cut prices...it would do just the opposite. It would act similarly to what the taxpayer backed student loan system is doing to the price of a university education.
    Other countries functioning in the real world manage.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    It eliminates all the insurance functions, though. No more audits, no claims processing, no underwriting, no sales agents, etc.

    This is where most of the cost savings will be, and it's huge.

    Also, no more insurance fraud. Also big.
    And no more getting pre-approval only to have it denied when the bill comes due. Someone has to make up that loss.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    "preventative care"? If people are okay with paying high risk premiums for their poor health habits now, what makes you think people would change their behaviors because government manages the financial side of healthcare? America's obesity rate is ridiculous....how would spreading the costs associated with their healthcare to everyone inspire them to put down their forks?
    My daughter has an autoimmune disease that has not one thing to do with bad habits, but the medication is $2,700 a month.

    Why don't you stop worrying about how to control other people's behavior, and focus on your own?
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