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Thread: Show me the best arguments for progressivism please.

  1. #211
    Grumpy Metal Slug Champion Blah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzling Evidence View Post
    You are the one who made the assertion, the onus falls on you to back up your claim, not everyone else to debunk it.
    I am willing to let my comments stand without attack.

  2. #212
    Mad Genius For Hire Puzzling Evidence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blah View Post
    I am willing to let my comments stand without attack.
    Ur? Who attacked you? You're the one thumping your chest and calling people uneducated.


    It still hurts!!!!

  3. #213
    Moderator libertariat720's Avatar
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    Thread Ban Notice

    Blah is banned from the thread. Don't respond to their posts.


  4. #214
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGaffer View Post
    1960 Democratic Platform:
    Democratic Party Platforms: 1960 Democratic Party Platform

    1980 Republican Platform:

    Republican Party Platforms: Republican Party Platform of 1980

    Ignorance is not a virtue, people.
    Interesting almost word for word, the same.

    Tax Cuts

    Supply Side economic policies

    Strong Defense

    Strong response to Soviet and Chinese Threats

    The Reuniting of Germany and freedom for Eastern Europe
    Last edited by TNVolunteer73; 16th July 2017 at 07:10 PM.

  5. #215
    Junior Member Claudius the God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmayspaint View Post
    I'm a life long liberal. My father was a democrat, and active in local politics. As soon as I was old enough, I worked the polls with him. We were in the political minority in east TN, but there were a few victories. One was forcing the local government to allow other, secular documents to be placed along side the Ten Commandments display in the local court house.

    Lately though I'm hearing more convincing arguments coming from the right and those on the left that call themselves classical liberals.

    Commentators like Dave Rubin, Steven Crowder, Larry Elder, Ben Shapiro, etc.. are putting out content that is making me question the progressive agenda that most on the left seem to embrace.

    I know there are a lot of progressives here so I though this would be a good place to ask for references to the cream of the crop of progressive arguments.

    I fear that because of YouTube/Google algorithms I might be missing compelling counter arguments to the content I'm watching lately.

    For example, does anyone have a link to a good video explaining why identity politics is a good thing? Perhaps some thoughtful refutations of the classical liberal ideas that the modern left seems to have abandoned?

    Or anything at all in that vein.

    Kindly leave out any arguments that rely on calling ideological opponents an "ist" of some kind in an attempt to shut down conversation. TIA.




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    What does the term progressive mean? What does liberal mean? Unlike conservatives, liberals have no founding fathers like Buckley to tell us what our collective ideals are so I am very unsure how to respond despite being called a liberal or progressive constantly. Like Ali once said to Howard " Howard, I don't know what truculent means but if it's good then I am it.".

  6. #216
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius the God View Post
    What does the term progressive mean? What does liberal mean? Unlike conservatives, liberals have no founding fathers like Buckley to tell us what our collective ideals are so I am very unsure how to respond despite being called a liberal or progressive constantly. Like Ali once said to Howard " Howard, I don't know what truculent means but if it's good then I am it.".
    What has happened is Liberalism has failed, so what has happened, the liberals have tried to rebrand "liberalsism" as progressivism.

    You know like Coke didn't change the formula when they got rid of "New Coke" they just kept the same stuff and put into cans with the name "Coke Classic"

    original coke used Cane Sugar (sucrose) , New coke and coke classic both use High Fructose Corn syrup.

    Liberalism is socialism, Progressive is a more of limited socialism, but Liberals took the term Progressive to rebrand their same ol' Socialism.
    Last edited by TNVolunteer73; 17th July 2017 at 12:59 PM.

  7. #217
    Junior Member Claudius the God's Avatar
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    Even though I just asked the TP to define the terms, I will tell you what I believe and hopefully this resonates with other folks who might be called liberal or progressive. We are not monolithic which is likely one of our key attributes.

    1. People are good until they are bad. This is the reverse of original sin. This assumes that all of us are basically decent people and we should not create a world assuming that everyone is inherently bad or evil.

    2. The world is our only home, take very, very good care of it and all it contains. The world is not ours to exploit, it is ours to cherish.

    3. The people of the world make up what we call humanity, we share more than we differ and those differences are what makes life wonderful. Not every culture is good by my definition, it may be good by their definition but certainly we can begin to converge as a species on a common set of "goodness" as we move forward. This pursuit of common "goodness" is called progress.

    4. Governments can be the main driver of a just, fair and egalitarian society or nation if we believe in it, understand it, participate in it, correct it and improve it. When the people no longer believe in their own governments, the governments turn into the monsters we all fear. We are the government but only if we are fully engaged in our society and its systems.

    5. All men and women are equal, period. Regardless of station, race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, gender or party affiliation, we should all be treated the same because each of us is a human being.

    Not sure if that resonates with anyone but these are my core beliefs. Does this make me a liberal or progressive? I bet many conservatives might agree with this list.
    Thanks from MaryAnne, nic and bonehead

  8. #218
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius the God View Post
    Even though I just asked the TP to define the terms, I will tell you what I believe and hopefully this resonates with other folks who might be called liberal or progressive. We are not monolithic which is likely one of our key attributes.

    1. People are good until they are bad. This is the reverse of original sin. This assumes that all of us are basically decent people and we should not create a world assuming that everyone is inherently bad or evil.

    2. The world is our only home, take very, very good care of it and all it contains. The world is not ours to exploit, it is ours to cherish.

    3. The people of the world make up what we call humanity, we share more than we differ and those differences are what makes life wonderful. Not every culture is good by my definition, it may be good by their definition but certainly we can begin to converge as a species on a common set of "goodness" as we move forward. This pursuit of common "goodness" is called progress.

    4. Governments can be the main driver of a just, fair and egalitarian society or nation if we believe in it, understand it, participate in it, correct it and improve it. When the people no longer believe in their own governments, the governments turn into the monsters we all fear. We are the government but only if we are fully engaged in our society and its systems.

    5. All men and women are equal, period. Regardless of station, race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, gender or party affiliation, we should all be treated the same because each of us is a human being.

    Not sure if that resonates with anyone but these are my core beliefs. Does this make me a liberal or progressive? I bet many conservatives might agree with this list.
    To me liberal and progressive is just an adjective placed before a name. For example Bernie Sanders considers himself a progressive independent while Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive republican. We have only recently run into issues because people think they fold neatly into one side or the other and place those outside as "bad" and not fitting in with the tribe. Politics is more of a circle than a tidy box. One can fit into several parts.

  9. #219
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    The right has done an effective job is demonizing unions and collective bargaining. They even still blame workers seeking better pay and better working conditions as a reason jobs left the area. The fact of the matter is that American workers could never compete with slave wages American business have enjoyed overseas for the past 30 years.

    The right has excellent reasons why liberalism "does not work"...but little information on how to make their ideas work in real world situations.

    Right now the only two issues important to the right are 1] ending federal participation in health care insurance...and 2] reforming taxes to give tax relief to the most wealthy.

    I don't know what the right believes what America should be past those two issues.
    At this point I do not believe the right cares at all what the people want.

    But they are in charge now,and are determined to destroy as much as they can because they know their time is fleeting.
    Last edited by MaryAnne; 17th July 2017 at 01:27 PM.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    To me liberal and progressive is just an adjective placed before a name. For example Bernie Sanders considers himself a progressive independent while Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive republican. We have only recently run into issues because people think they fold neatly into one side or the other and place those outside as "bad" and not fitting in with the tribe. Politics is more of a circle than a tidy box. One can fit into several parts.
    That's true enough. People do not fit into neat little packages with a bow. Well - at least most people don't.

    But there are lemmings out there who simply believe what the collective tell them to. They are usually easy to spot too. Because they always tow the party line and engage in rampant hypocrisy while doing so.

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