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Thread: Curtains for union coercion (Employee Rights Act)

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    It's very simple really.
    If management has all the power they will proceed to fuck their employees blind.
    If the unions have all the power they will proceed to fuck their employers blind.

    EACH has to have just enough power to make the other negotiate fair and reasonable contracts.

    It's just human nature at work.
    Balance! What a sensible idea.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    They very often don't have the incentive to "fuck their employees," given plenty need quality staff and can't retain them if they "fuck them." This reveals that in virtually no case does any employer have "all the power."



    And they do, or try their damnedest.



    Unions aren't necessary at all, as evidenced by the amount of work that gets done with no union involved.
    Yep, the work gets done, the rich are getting richer, and roughly half the working population doesn't earn enough to provide for themselves, and their families without some form of welfare.

    Things are seriously screwed up - if it were not so, trumps campaign slogan wouldn't have resonated with so many.
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  3. #53
    Veteran Member Panzareta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    They very often don't have the incentive to "fuck their employees," given plenty need quality staff and can't retain them if they "fuck them." This reveals that in virtually no case does any employer have "all the power."



    And they do, or try their damnedest.



    Unions aren't necessary at all, as evidenced by the amount of work that gets done with no union involved.
    I guess only employers are allowed to act in their own self interest in your utopia. Who cares if the employees don't have the money to do all that consumin' needed to float the economy
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Balance! What a sensible idea.
    The Employee Rights Act is a sensible idea. What's your issue with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Panzareta View Post
    I guess only employers are allowed to act in their own self interest in your utopia.
    I have a specific policy goal. It has nothing to do with "utopia." Where did you come up with that?

    Everyone acts in their own self interest. But some behaviors are illegal.

    Who cares if the employees don't have the money to do all that consumin' needed to float the economy
    What does that have to do with this thread?

    And in general, why are all the union apologists saying precisely nothing about the topic of this thread, which is union coercion of their own members? Instead we get brainless pro-union mantra.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    The Employee Rights Act is a sensible idea. What's your issue with it?

    I have a specific policy goal. It has nothing to do with "utopia." Where did you come up with that?

    Everyone acts in their own self interest. But some behaviors are illegal.

    What does that have to do with this thread?

    And in general, why are all the union apologists saying precisely nothing about the topic of this thread, which is union coercion of their own members? Instead we get brainless pro-union mantra.
    i doubt there is even one institution created by man that is without fault, that includes unions, and businesses. The difference between you and me is that I'm not reflexively out to see all private enterprise eliminated because abuses exist.

    In my humble opinion, the knee jerk response to anything Union smacks of brainlessness.
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  6. #56
    Veteran Member Panzareta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    i doubt there is even one institution created by man that is without fault, that includes unions, and businesses. The difference between you and me is that I'm not reflexively out to see all private enterprise eliminated because abuses exist.

    In my humble opinion, the knee jerk response to anything Union smacks of brainlessness.
    And since unions are considered the spawn of SJWs by the fringe right we can also chalk this particular meme up to the usual suspects. I notice he already uses their favorite code words
    Last edited by Panzareta; 11th July 2017 at 07:14 AM.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    They very often don't have the incentive to "fuck their employees," given plenty need quality staff and can't retain them if they "fuck them." This reveals that in virtually no case does any employer have "all the power."



    And they do, or try their damnedest.



    Unions aren't necessary at all, as evidenced by the amount of work that gets done with no union involved.
    Mr. Neomalthusian,

    With regard to your last point, I would say it would depend on the industry. In construction, unions are absolutely necessary for the trades because the unions do so much more than just negotiate work agreements. Since construction work is seasonal, and job to job, workers do not generally work for one contractor or one employer, but rather, offer their work from the hall. And since work is generally short term (the life of a contract) it doesn't make sense to bring your labor on to the company health and benefits plans. Instead, as part of the compensation that the employers pay, they also pay into the union health plan, a vacation bank, pension plan, etc. The union acts as the defacto clearinghouse for the worker's benefits. Also, the union acts as a trades school for the workers, ensuring that the apprentices and lower level journeymen get the training they need to work in the trade.

    In the end, the employer gets a skilled, reliable workforce and the workers get suitable compensation and a union that provides for their health and retirement benefits.

    That is the ideal model for a union.

    Other industries, the need for a union becomes more obscure, from an actually need to protect worker's rights, to a racketeering group used to extort employers to one degree or another. Or in the case of public employee unions, solely a funding source for the Democratic party.

  8. #58
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    It is a sad reality of our politics when the decades long efforts of the John Birch Society successfully talked once proud and prosperous union members into hating the very unions who gave them that prosperity and pride. It is unbelievable to me how any trade worker would not want the benefits of being in a union.
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    Trump: employees make too much money.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    Mr. Neomalthusian,

    With regard to your last point, I would say it would depend on the industry. In construction, unions are absolutely necessary for the trades because the unions do so much more than just negotiate work agreements. Since construction work is seasonal, and job to job, workers do not generally work for one contractor or one employer, but rather, offer their work from the hall. And since work is generally short term (the life of a contract) it doesn't make sense to bring your labor on to the company health and benefits plans. Instead, as part of the compensation that the employers pay, they also pay into the union health plan, a vacation bank, pension plan, etc. The union acts as the defacto clearinghouse for the worker's benefits. Also, the union acts as a trades school for the workers, ensuring that the apprentices and lower level journeymen get the training they need to work in the trade.

    In the end, the employer gets a skilled, reliable workforce and the workers get suitable compensation and a union that provides for their health and retirement benefits.

    That is the ideal model for a union.

    Other industries, the need for a union becomes more obscure, from an actually need to protect worker's rights, to a racketeering group used to extort employers to one degree or another. Or in the case of public employee unions, solely a funding source for the Democratic party.
    Why couldn't regular firms exist which accomplish what you say unions must do?

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