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Thread: Coal, oil, gas and nuclear power MUCH greener than solar panels

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    I don't have to prove that solar panels aren't green. The greenies say that factories aren't green, and you need those to make solar panels. Ask them.
    But are you saying they are dirtier than other sources of energy currently available?
    Because you really aren't arguing against 'greenies', your arguing about trying to make a cleaner environment.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    Who cares? Take out the glass and concentrate on all the other components, and nothing I said above changes. You haven’t addressed the points made, and cannot deny the enormous carbon footprint that their manufacture and distribution, maintenance and replacement create. You have failed to address the fact that thousands of factories are used to manufacture all the thousands of components, which are shipped and trucked from all over the world, their delivery, their installation, their maintenance or their replacement.



    Which needs to be mined. Only a moron would think you can take “take” aluminum out of the ground in nice pieces ready to go on a solar panel. You need hundreds of big machines to process the bauxite, make the aluminum, transport the aluminum, cut the aluminum and shape the aluminum. It then needs to be measured, cut, drilled and packaged, ready to be sent to the place making the solar panels, where it is assembled into solar panels. Aluminum, which apparently gives some trolls a major hard on, is only ONE out of hundreds of components needed to run the solar panels – none of which you have addressed.

    As pointed out in my last reply, there are many other electrical accessories connected with this, since you need to regulate and control the solar panels, and connect them to the grid, which MOST users do in the cities. Few people have stand alone solar panels. The great majority want to let some of their electricity go back to the grid, to lower their bills. You’ve dismissed that part of the equation as a giant joke, because you have no idea what you’re talking about.
    Hey man, I appreciate your premise, but you are arguing about how solar panels are made while ignoring the fact of how we acquire oil gas and coal. They may be natural to us, but not easily accessible it always even usable in its current form.
    You want to argue that they are equal in the end, is listen, probably wouldn't agree in the long run, but it would be a much more valid argument than pretending oil gas and coal take no energy forms to access and use.
    Thanks from Idiocracat and labrea

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    I assumed you knew that no energy source is 100% safe, including the sun. Hokay, well let’s start at the beginning. First, the sun is very dangerous and can give you second, and in some cases even third degree burns. Even on a cloudy day you can be scorched by the sun, so always cover up or use sun screen. Sunlight can also start fires by being magnified through broken glass or glass bottles, so always dispose of them properly. Even when you’re covered up the sun can still kill you, through exposure, overheating and drying up all your water. Once again, never underestimate the sun’s ability to kill you.

    Regarding fossil fuels, they too can be deadly, since they can burn easily, and that is dangerous. Any kind of power station can be deadly, and in any energy industry there will be some casualties.

    If you want the safest, cleanest and cheapest fuel of all, that would be nuclear power. Like any big industry there will be some accidents, but compared with oil and coal, nuclear power is far, far, far safer.

    You might say, “How about solar and wind?”

    They don’t provide nearly enough power for society’s needs, and are too expensive. They require thousands of industries, mines, trucks, ships and transport infrastructure to put together the panels and windmills, which use all the same fossil fuels greens hate so much. Once that giant footprint is created, the end result isn’t much good. Not nearly as good as a simple nuclear power plant. So do yourself a favor and forget about green power. It’s just another Left dead end.

    .
    To forget about green power, I'd first have to think about it - the terms are yours, not mine.

    Seems your fellow countrymen have put the kibosh on nuclear power generation, it's them you have to convince.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by One View Post
    We do need to invest more into finding better ways to dispose of the waste...maybe jettison it to the sun.
    There are many myths about the nuclear industry. A number of them are dispelled on this page.

    Radioactive Wastes - Myths and Realities : World Nuclear Association - World Nuclear Association

    Here’s number 1:

    1. The nuclear industry still has no solution to the 'waste problem'

    Like all industries, the thermal generation of electricity produces waste. Whatever fuel is used, this waste must be managed in ways which safeguard human health and minimise their impact on the environment.

    The nuclear industry has developed – and implemented – most of the necessary technologies required for the final disposal of all of the waste it produces. The remaining issue is one of public acceptance, and not of technological feasibility.

    The amount of waste produced by the nuclear power industry is small relative to other industrial activities. 97% of the waste produced is classified as low- or intermediate-level waste (LLW or ILW). Such waste has been widely disposed of in near-surface repositories for many years. In France, where fuel is reprocessed, just 0.2% of all radioactive waste by volume is classified as high-level waste (HLW).a

    The amount of HLW produced (including used fuel when this is considered a waste) during nuclear production is small. In providing 11% of the world's electricity, nuclear power stations produce approximately 34,000m3 of HLW annuallyb.

    Unlike other industrial toxic wastes, the principal hazard associated with HLW – radioactivity – diminishes with time. At present, interim storage facilities provide an appropriate environment to contain and manage existing waste, and the decay of heat and radioactivity over time provides a strong incentive to store HLW for a period before its final disposal. In fact, after 40 years, the radioactivity of used fuel has decreased to about one-thousandth of the level at the point when it was unloaded. Interim storage facilities also allow a country to store its spent fuel until a time when it has generated sufficient quantities to make a repository development economic.

    In the long-term, however, appropriate disposal arrangements are required for HLW due to its prolonged radioactivity. The safe, environmentally-sound disposal of HLW is technologically proven, with international scientific consensus on deep geological repositories. Such projects are well advanced in some countries, such as Finland, Sweden, France, and the USA. In fact, in the USA a deep geological waste repository (the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant) is already in operation for the disposal of transuranic waste (long-lived ILW contaminated with military materials such as plutonium). Countries where plans for deep geological repositories have been advanced demonstrate that efforts to resolve political and public acceptance issues at a community and national level can be successful.

    Progress is being made to achieve public acceptance, but it is important that governments follow the lead of countries more advanced in the process of long-term disposal of HLW.


    Of course, solar and wind energy have potential to decrease our dependence on fossil fuels too.
    You don’t need them. You have nuclear power. Greens want you to waste time and money on solar and wind because they hate capitalism and want America’s enemies to take over. Why do you think they never criticized China’s or the USSR’s nuclear facilities? How clear do you want them to make it for you? Would you have gladly traded your warships for rowing boats had Hitler had urged you to?

    They are fairly new technologies
    New? LOL!

    Solar panels have been around since 1839, long before nuclear was discovered. The first electricity-generating wind turbine was invented a few years later, in 1888, long before nuclear was discovered. Nuclear is the new kid on the block and you’ve been ignoring it all your life.

    .

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by metheron View Post
    you are arguing about how solar panels are made while ignoring the fact of how we acquire oil gas and coal.
    Not at all. I’m the one pointing to how you acquire gas and coal, and how you need to do that in order to make solar panels and wind turbines. So having solar panels and wind turbines is STILL going to leave JUST as big a ‘footprint’ as using coal and oil. The other point is that solar panels and wind turbines don’t provide enough energy, and are far more expensive than nuclear. Nuclear power is much more modern, cheaper, safer and cleaner, so why would you fuck around with such old fashioned, outdated technology as solar panels and windmills? Why allow greenies to screw the United States from the inside out?

    You want to argue that they are equal in the end
    Nah. Nuclear is way better than ‘equal’. It’s a thousand miles in front of crappy old solar panels and windmills. You guys are just like Don Quixote, tilting at windmills. You need to get out and smell the tulips growing outside a nuclear power station, in the green grass, under a blue sky. Hopefully some commonsense will hit you.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    To forget about green power, I'd first have to think about it - the terms are yours, not mine.
    ‘Green power’ doesn’t exist, but to use that hippy term, the greenest power you have is nuclear. You should have been celebrating it all these decades instead of ignoring and shunning it.

    Seems your fellow countrymen have put the kibosh on nuclear power generation, it's them you have to convince.
    Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Oregon, Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands have no nuclear power plants. Fourteen states have currently placed restrictions on the construction of new nuclear power facilities: California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont and West Virginia. Minnesota has adopted an outright ban on the construction of new nuclear power facilities and New York has outlined a similar ban in a limited area of the state. Other states have set conditions on the construction of new nuclear power facilities.

    http://www.ncsl.org/research/environ...-facility.aspx

    That’s a much bigger population than ‘lil old Australia. Now, guess why we don’t have nuclear power stations?

    We’re copying you. Not the states that have them, but the states that don’t. Our hippies are copying all your hippies. Get it?

  7. #117
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Note here,organizations have been giving out Solar cooking stoves to natives for years.

    They were having a hard time finding wood to burn. Amazing how easy and clean they are.

    https://www.oneearthdesigns.com/sols...EaAnNrEALw_wcB

  8. #118
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    ‘Green power’ doesn’t exist, but to use that hippy term, the greenest power you have is nuclear. You should have been celebrating it all these decades instead of ignoring and shunning it.



    Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Oregon, Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands have no nuclear power plants. Fourteen states have currently placed restrictions on the construction of new nuclear power facilities: California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont and West Virginia. Minnesota has adopted an outright ban on the construction of new nuclear power facilities and New York has outlined a similar ban in a limited area of the state. Other states have set conditions on the construction of new nuclear power facilities.

    http://www.ncsl.org/research/environ...-facility.aspx

    That’s a much bigger population than ‘lil old Australia. Now, guess why we don’t have nuclear power stations?

    We’re copying you. Not the states that have them, but the states that don’t. Our hippies are copying all your hippies. Get it?
    You can not really be that du,er, naive!

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