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Thread: The art of debate...

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWahoo View Post
    Arkady:

    I am nearing retirement. While the wife and I will do some travelling, it will not be often and extensive, so I thought I would spend my time golfing and reading. Sort of a second childhood self education, if you will. So, thanks for the suggestion. Permit me to ask, if I go to the local Border's book store, for what will I be looking.
    There are a number of shorter "greatest hits" books of Plato's dialogues, as well as some monster compendiums of all of them. For example:

    https://www.amazon.com/Plato-Complet...3GWTYPY25MC75M

    If you're looking for a "second childhood self education," here's a breezy way to start it. It's a great read and it touches on practically everything:

    https://www.amazon.com/Incomplete-Ed...lete+education
    Thanks from BitterPill and TheWahoo

  2. #62
    Veteran Member Pragmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaos View Post
    I'm going on 40 years of memory but Plato did make an attempt to legitimize Socrates as a real person but Socrates would never apologize or commit suicide. It was Plato who was unable to live with the fact that Greece rejected his call for a monotheist state god. Plato was a lot like Trump when it comes to being loved by the people.
    You mean most people thought he was an asshole?
    Thanks from BitterPill and chaos

  3. #63
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Lol. I'm the choir. You don't need to convert me. Hahaha. I'm fully on board.

    But the debate is futile if it's with someone who is deliberately refusing to acknowledge any premise that might lead the wrong way. Just ... straight up, flatly refuses to acknowledge it. And the "judge", the person scoring the debate, considers THAT a valid
    argument.

    Your fingerprints are on the knife"
    "I never touched it"
    "Your fingerprints are on it"
    "I don't believe in fingerprints"
    "Your DNA is on it too"
    "I don't believe in DNA"
    "Five witnesses saw you and it's on video"
    "Nope. I didn't touch it"
    "Come on, I'm not saying you killed him, but clearly you touched this knife"
    "Nope, never touched it. You're a socialist"

    The ONLY way to resolve this is with an independent judge. To say "ok, he clearly touched that knife so we'll go forward".

    Voters are SUPPOSED to be that judge.

    But what I see on this website, and in American media, is that the voters are unpaid, volunteer advocates of one side or the other. Childishly playing the "nope, he didn't touch it" game - instead of being the mature, responsible judge.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWahoo View Post
    Arkady:

    I am nearing retirement. While the wife and I will do some travelling, it will not be often and extensive, so I thought I would spend my time golfing and reading. Sort of a second childhood self education, if you will. So, thanks for the suggestion. Permit me to ask, if I go to the local Border's book store, for what will I be looking.
    Wahoo, before you buy too many books, check with your local Library. They are all inter connected now and can find you most anything.

    I have bookcases full of expensive books that I read once. Now,I go to the Library,put in a request,get it a few days later. They even renew your 3 weeks up to 5 times,notify you by Email. They have everything.

    I just finished Jeff Flake's new book. Read Al Franken before that. I am going to reserve Hillary next week.

    Save a pot of money.
    Thanks from Thx1138, Babba and TheWahoo

  4. #64
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Now that I think of it, I've read at least portions of the Republic and Gorgias as well. Don't ask me about Phaedo or Symposium though.
    Don't ask me about any of them ... it's been too long.
    Thanks from MaryAnne

  5. #65
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterPill View Post
    Damn... at that age I was reading The Hardy Boys and proud of it. Read every one of them.
    Oh, I read those, too, though I don't think I ever got all of them. I had quite a few of them, though, and re-read most of the ones I had.

    Maybe it's time to re-read Plato - if I can finish re-reading Tolkien, and get through McCulloch's bio of John Adams. I spend too much time online these days (not counting work).
    Thanks from BitterPill and MaryAnne

  6. #66
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegoricalfact View Post
    Evidence suggests - in fact it more than suggests, that Jesus was the Jewish man/g-d.
    The Jewish concept of the moschiach (messiah) is not of a man/g-d. That is impossible in Judaism. The Jewish scriptures exclude Jesus as a contender, and in fact conclusively demonstrates that the Jewish moshiach has not yet appeared.
    Thanks from MaryAnne and BitterPill

  7. #67
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    The Jewish concept of the moschiach (messiah) is not of a man/g-d. That is impossible in Judaism. The Jewish scriptures exclude Jesus as a contender, and in fact conclusively demonstrates that the Jewish moshiach has not yet appeared.
    Funny here,Ian.Our Pastor asked us last week how we pictured God. There were a few answers, but the one that stuck in my mind was, a picture of a huge cliff that was on the screen. I could not see that. Good question to think about!

  8. #68
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    The Jewish concept of the moschiach (messiah) is not of a man/g-d. That is impossible in Judaism. The Jewish scriptures exclude Jesus as a contender, and in fact conclusively demonstrates that the Jewish moshiach has not yet appeared.
    Jesus was the Son,sent to earth. For Christians. Others think different. But God is a different story.

  9. #69
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Funny here,Ian.Our Pastor asked us last week how we pictured G-d. There were a few answers, but the one that stuck in my mind was, a picture of a huge cliff that was on the screen. I could not see that. Good question to think about!
    In Judaism, G-d cannot be "pictured," because He has no physical being to picture and is completely non-corporeal. We do not and cannot know precisely what G-d is, but we do know some things He is not.
    Thanks from MaryAnne and bmanmcfly

  10. #70
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    From
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    The Jewish concept of the moschiach (messiah) is not of a man/g-d. That is impossible in Judaism. The Jewish scriptures exclude Jesus as a contender, and in fact conclusively demonstrates that the Jewish moshiach has not yet appeared.
    I knew that! So does anyone who knows the first thing about your faith.

    The concept that suits me is one Church. We are all striving for the same thing. We are having a series in Church, bringing in different Denominations to show how we are alike, not the different rules and regulations. I like that concept.

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