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Thread: A rare Republican moderate decides to walk away from Congress

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    'Moderation' is status quo,
    No, it isn't. Moderation is where people compromise in the middle between various more radical policies.
    status quo is corruption, loosely enforced immigration law, sanctuary cities, $20 trillion debt, $.6 trillion deficits, more spending, higher taxes, collapsing Obamacare, insolvent Social Security/Medicare, hostility to capitalism, individual rights and liberties....

    Fuck moderation. the road to hell is paved with moderation.
    Spoken like an inveterate radical. Corruption isn't a flaw of one perspective or another--it's human flaw that afflicts institutions of all kinds. When you say "fuck moderation," what you're really saying is "Fuck the 90% of the world that doesn't think just like me."

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    I agree that marginalizing moderation is a bad thing, but considering you are a big fan of Bernie, your comment seems...inconsistent...to me.

    It's also strange to me that you seem to support moderate Republicans, but you bash moderate Democrats all the time. Most of what you don't like about Clinton, for example, appears to be areas where she agrees with or gains support from traditionally Republican power centers.
    So what's the difference between a moderate Republican and a moderate Democrat?
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  3. #23
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    Let's take debt and deficit as an example. Anytime any political group is out of power, they complain about the debt and deficit (which are really issues of concern) but once they gain power, concerns about deficits go away. Debt and deficits are really ONLY a front for defunding the particular programs a political faction doesn't like. Very few Republicans are so concerned about the deficit that they would cut defense budgets in order to control it--the only want to cut programs that they want to cut anyway. And they'll never consider increases in taxes as a way to reduce the deficit, even though "income" is half of the formula which which a deficit or surplus is created.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    So what's the difference between a moderate Republican and a moderate Democrat?
    At one time, not that much. But both parties have moved to the extremes in recent years. Moderates are the ones who will actually accept votes from the other party in order to move a policy priority rather than insisting on starting with a majority in their own party and refusing to move any legislation that doesn't win a majority of their partisans.
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  5. #25
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    No, it isn't. Moderation is where people compromise in the middle between various more radical policies. Spoken like an inveterate radical. Corruption isn't a flaw of one perspective or another--it's human flaw that afflicts institutions of all kinds. When you say "fuck moderation," what you're really saying is "Fuck the 90% of the world that doesn't think just like me."
    I completely agree but I do have to say that there is a growing number of people that have sat through both a republican administration and a democratic administration, and they see the same structural issues. Income inequality, higher education costs, poverty, underemployment etc and they might be willing to gamble on either a far left or far right approach. They feel the status quo or establishment has let them down. Both parties same outcome kind of thing. We kept hearing and hearing over again "both parties are getting too similar" and all that. Lets be honest both Sanders and Trump pushed that narrative and many responded positively to it.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    So what's the difference between a moderate Republican and a moderate Democrat?
    I don't really think there is one necessarily. I believe Joe Manchin is a moderate democrat and he has identical ideologies to Susan Collins.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I don't really think there is one necessarily. I believe Joe Manchin is a moderate democrat and he has identical ideologies to Susan Collins.
    According to this measure at least, Collins is to the LEFT of Manchin (as well as three other Dems) but she's the ONLY one of the 100 senators who can see anyone from the other party between themselves and the middle.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    According to this measure at least, Collins is to the LEFT of Manchin (as well as three other Dems) but she's the ONLY one of the 100 senators who can see anyone from the other party between themselves and the middle.
    Agree its pretty rare, but it does occasionally happen. Joe Lieberman spent decades as a democrat and later became an independent when he became too far right for his party and lost a primary. Its also pretty rare that they actually change parties, many times they just remain as they are and cross the aisle. Manchin many believe, will become a republican at some point due to the dynamics of his state and his ideologies. Not sure about that, but I could see it. Charlie Baker, the current gov of Mass, is another moderate republican that sits to the left of some blue dogs democrats as well.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    So what's the difference between a moderate Republican and a moderate Democrat?
    They can accept various shades of purple? or maybe they are not insane? I think they both can compromise and see the broader picture and are able to concede on some things for the greater good.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Agree its pretty rare, but it does occasionally happen. Joe Lieberman spent decades as a democrat and later became an independent when he became too far right for his party and lost a primary. Its also pretty rare that they actually change parties, many times they just remain as they are and cross the aisle. Manchin many believe, will become a republican at some point due to the dynamics of his state and his ideologies. Not sure about that, but I could see it. Charlie Baker, the current gov of Mass, is another moderate republican that sits to the left of some blue dogs democrats as well.
    If Manchin became a Republican, he'd get primaried. He's going to get a threat next year from the left, but Dems would be foolish to vote for his opponent since she can't possibly win the GE in WV.

    WV is a poor state and it elects its senators for only one reason--national legislation that benefits WV's economy. Unfortunately, that means laws that encourage the use of high-sulfur coal (because that's the kind of coal WV has) and lesser environmental regulation (because, sadly, West Virginians don't mind a more polluted environment if it means jobs at a chemical plant on the Kanawa River). That will go on until something terrible happens that makes people realize they live in a beautiful mountain cesspool.
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