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Thread: Betsy DeVos is right about campus sexual assault

  1. #31
    Veteran Member PACE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    I agree...women should be taught how young men behave when they have too much to drink. They are immature and have barely evolved beyond a rock ape. We also need to teach our young men how to treat a woman. I think that ship has sailed for young men. You don't have sex with anyone who is unconscious and it is a really bad idea if a stranger initiates sex and consents only to be mistreated after it happens by not returning text messages, kissing and telling or just becoming a dick afterwards. This creates "buyers remorse" and girls get pissed and rape accusations are perfect retaliations. If I had a son, I would advise him against engaging in sex if he is drunk...10 minutes could ruin your life and women deserve better than that.
    Hold on, universities have strict guidelines on intoxication, harken back to the MIT tragedy where a student died of alcohol poisoning, I mentored a young mechanical engineer who was in that class; it was clear and thoroughly understood that MIT would boot your ass out if you were caught intoxicated, with booze on the property or became entangled in any kind of altercation related to alcohol. They doubled down after that kid died, and it was widely understood if you applied, and your propensity was toward inhibing, you weren't getting in.

    it's not just the girls, the boys too, it should be understood that higher learning doesn't not include the ability to hold more liquor.
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  2. #32
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACE View Post
    Hold on, universities have strict guidelines on intoxication, harken back to the MIT tragedy where a student died of alcohol poisoning, I mentored a young mechanical engineer who was in that class; it was clear and thoroughly understood that MIT would boot your ass out if you were caught intoxicated, with booze on the property or became entangled in any kind of altercation related to alcohol. They doubled down after that kid died, and it was widely understood if you applied, and your propensity was toward inhibing, you weren't getting in.

    it's not just the girls, the boys too, it should be understood that higher learning doesn't not include the ability to hold more liquor.
    And this is the problem. These campus conduct codes do not have the necessary protection from false accusations, etc. And yet the consequences can be terrible, including branding an innocent boy as a rapist because some pissed off girl games the system.

    If sexual assault is an epidemic on campus, it should be fought like any other violent crime. More cops. "Neighborhood watch" groups. Extra effort to investigate and prosecute.

    NOT by allowing young women to bully law abiding young men.
    Last edited by Madeline; 13th September 2017 at 10:58 PM.

  3. #33
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Anyone confused as to whether females ever make false accusations against their romantic partners for revenge needs to spend a week in family court. WAY too much time must now be spent, investigating claims of child sexual abuse made by mothers who are angry at their kids' dad, and that have NO basis in fact.

    BOTH men and women are capable of terrible crimes. Nobody should get "presumed truthful" on the basis of their gender alone.
    Last edited by Madeline; 13th September 2017 at 11:01 AM.
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  4. #34
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACE View Post
    Read this before you decide:

    https://www.rainn.org/statistics/campus-sexual-violence


    And remember Brock Turner? let out after three months for good behaviour, total sentence 6 months,

    BUT,,,,

    FACT CHECK: Did a Criminology Textbook Use Brock Turner as an Example?

    Just remember, the government can't do shit right anyway,,,, but we, (the mothers) can, and we will.

    So here's to using methods OUTSIDE of the law, to combat rape on campus.
    Innocent until proven guilty.

    Methods "outside the law" do not protect the students from the abuses a crappy legal system all too often imposed.

  5. #35
    Junior Member Claudius the God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Young women in college need to be taught we don't live in a world where they can DEMND to be kept safe even if they get so intoxicated, they become unconscious.
    As a father of two young women, I reject the notion that if they get so drunk they are unconscious then this gives any man the right to fuck them silly. It is rape and being drunk has nothing to do with the act of rape. If you condone this type of behavior would you also condone raping a comatose woman in a hospital? Or how about a woman knocked out, does that give a man the right to rape her?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius the God View Post
    As a father of two young women, I reject the notion that if they get so drunk they are unconscious then this gives any man the right to fuck them silly. It is rape and being drunk has nothing to do with the act of rape.
    It does if the act of rape is given such a broad definition, as Obama-era initiatives sought to do, that consent becomes a subjective judgment call that has hairsplitting arbitrary criteria. As the OP link mentions when it cites a rape survivor critical of Obama-era regulations on this issue, such broad definitions of rape "trivialize sexual violence."

    For example, if lack of sober consent is rape, then at what B.A.C. is consent legitimate? 0.08? Less? Who makes that determination? Should colleges require pre-sex breathalizers and signed documentation to be filed?

    If you condone this type of behavior would you also condone raping a comatose woman in a hospital? Or how about a woman knocked out, does that give a man the right to rape her?
    You're on the extreme end of the assault spectrum where no one disputes the wrongness. It's extremely wrong. But it's also a very difficult issue in that a line in the sand has to be drawn, and false or questionable accusations of rape can ruin people's lives. Due process over this issue is very difficult, but imperative.

    If two college kids are three shots of vodka into the night and make the mutually inebriated decision to go at it, that's rape if the female decides it is upon sobering up? There is every shade of gray involved in the issue of substance use, sex, and consent that people need to be reasonable and due process must be held to a high standard for the protection of both the accuser and the accused.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 13th September 2017 at 05:09 PM.
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  7. #37
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    When someone is unconscious, she obviously cannot consent. Given some degree of consciousness, though, it would have to be determined.
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  8. #38
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACE View Post
    Hold on, universities have strict guidelines on intoxication, harken back to the MIT tragedy where a student died of alcohol poisoning, I mentored a young mechanical engineer who was in that class; it was clear and thoroughly understood that MIT would boot your ass out if you were caught intoxicated, with booze on the property or became entangled in any kind of altercation related to alcohol. They doubled down after that kid died, and it was widely understood if you applied, and your propensity was toward inhibing, you weren't getting in.

    it's not just the girls, the boys too, it should be understood that higher learning doesn't not include the ability to hold more liquor.
    College drinking has been going on for decades. It doesn't matter if it is permitted or not, no one can police this that closely. Ohio State is a huge party university.
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  9. #39
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius the God View Post
    As a father of two young women, I reject the notion that if they get so drunk they are unconscious then this gives any man the right to fuck them silly. It is rape and being drunk has nothing to do with the act of rape. If you condone this type of behavior would you also condone raping a comatose woman in a hospital? Or how about a woman knocked out, does that give a man the right to rape her?
    Of course sex with an unconscious person is a crime, and of course it should be punished.

    Did you teach your daughter's not to hitchhike? I did mine.

    I did it because I knew the risks of CRIMES against girls who hitchhike was sky-high. The criminal justice system is a poor consolation prize for the horrors of rape.
    Last edited by Madeline; 13th September 2017 at 11:00 PM.

  10. #40
    Moderator HayJenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    If course sex with an unconscious person is a crime, and of course it should be punished.

    Did you teach your daughter's not to hitchhike? I did mine.

    I did it because I knew the risks of CRIMES against girls who hitchhike was sky-high. The criminal justice system is a poor consolation prize for the horrors of rape.
    Please stop blaming the girls who get raped.

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