Members banned from this thread: Dragonfly5


Page 6 of 24 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 239
Thanks Tree193Thanks

Thread: Universal Health Care For Americans Baby Ya!

  1. #51
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    64,989
    Thanks
    45552

    From
    So. Md.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Not in big enough numbers that cost more than paying for universal health care for all.

    Not even close.

    Pick one nation with universal healthcare that has a lower tax rate than us.
    They may have higher taxes but they don't pay anywhere near what we do for insurance and out of pocket expenses. In many cases their cost of living is lower partly because of their health care system. Plus, the cost to the government and the average cost to each individual is lower.
    Thanks from MaryAnne and EnigmaO01

  2. #52
    Junior Member
    Joined
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,707
    Thanks
    802

    From
    Maryland USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    You're right. The poor don't get check ups. But they go to the ER when they sick or have accidents. And all of us pay that.
    I don't disagree with your statement. The ER is by far the most expensive source for primary care. But then, Medicaid recipients have primary care coverage, but a significant number, if not a majority, still use the ER for such care. I can only guess the reasons, perhaps, it is educational levels and its related use of health resources or access to primary care, that is, getting to it. I served on the voluntary board of a 501C organization that operated inner city clinics, often, the clinic personnel actually had to enroll many into the Medicaid program. Moreover, even after enrolled, many would return with documents from an ER for follow-up because they continued to go there for primary care. In our hospitals, we had an employee we titled "Patient Advocate", one of their responsibilities was to enroll an eligible patient into an available program. The sad thing was that many were children where the parents either didn't know or hadn't bothered to enroll them in available child care programs.
    Thanks from Babba

  3. #53
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    30,003
    Thanks
    23713

    From
    On a hill
    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    I remember when LBJ signed it. The Democrats have tried ever since to fix health care.

    Good Lord,even Nixon wanted it. Republican plan,and still they bitch with out knowing anything.
    Bitching seems to be what republicans are good at.
    Thanks from NightSwimmer, MaryAnne and EnigmaO01

  4. #54
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    44,251
    Thanks
    31537

    From
    Englewood,Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    You're right. The poor don't get check ups. But they go to the ER when they sick or have accidents. And all of us pay that.
    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    So what? I support it too. That's why I'm opposed to this self-aggrandizing, idiotic attempt to force a vote on the issue within a Congress that quite obviously doesn't support it.

    Grandstanding is not a viable method for passing legislation. Bernie simply desires celebrity, and he doesn't give a damn if his antics hurt the Democratic Party in it's long-term endeavor to actually accomplish something on healthcare policy. Why should he? He isn't a Democrat. He's just another Don Quixote play-pretend "revolutionary".
    Right now I am in full support of what members are trying to do along party lines.

    I am really sick of my way,or the highway! We have to get over this idiotic obsession.

    I really do not care if Trump gets credit,and all of you know my opinion of Trump. The man,at least understood he had a group of do nothings in Congress,and blind sided them. Mitch and Paul are grumbling around. Paul trying to pretend he is all for bi- partisan, but he could not even get through 3 questions without a snippy," I will get it done with,or without Democrats!"

    The problem solvers caucus leaders were just on,friends,agreeing to work with all.

    Schumer and Pelosi are invited to Dinner tonight at the WhiteHouse.
    Thanks from EnigmaO01

  5. #55
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    12,966
    Thanks
    10759

    From
    Here
    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Not in big enough numbers that cost more than paying for universal health care for all.

    Not even close.

    Pick one nation with universal healthcare that has a lower tax rate than us.
    How is it we keep hearing from the same people that Americans are simultaneously the MOST taxed people on the planet, while also warning us about becoming like all those other "higher taxed" nations? There seems to be a contradiction there.

    Either these people lack the brain capacity to recognize that it is a shift of where they pay, not an addition to what they pay and that they can still add on and supplement to coverage or they know full well what it is all about, but oppose it because they profit from the way things are currently and fight all efforts to cut off their current feeding off the "health industry" gravy train. There are those who fear that such a shift would be successful and they would not just lose out on the profits they have been racking in, but politically, their years of fighting it, would not look good if it were passed and became a huge success. Then there are people who just do not like change, even if it is for the better.......If the change occurs without their support and they see it is for the better and a success, then some of them act as if it were their idea.........

    If all people had to pay medical expenses out of pocket, the price might come down, due to how many could afford to pay for it. Insurance for anything, generally was once relegated to cover the cost of catastrophes, but when employers began to use paying their employees insurance as a lure (while they got to write of their cost of the insurance and avoid employer/employment taxes on it not being considered wages, insurance companies were glad to oblige and make it part of our culture (because they profited immensely from doing so). To consider that we are now talking about the affordability of the INSURANCE.....NOT the actual care, suggests things have gotten way out of whack with costs, some of those costs being the layers of profit taken by insurance companies and the cost of administering who gets paid what, what's covered, etc. Competition has NOT been good in the health care industry and when huge insurance companies are buying out other insurance companies, the notion of more "competition" is not there.

    In healthcare, it would seem the aim should be like defense........cover everyone. Those whining about a single payer system are often the same people that are all for increasing defense spending and supporting that department of government. If we could only put as much support into healthy Americans, as a we do for weapons of death and destruction, we could truly be great......But it seems some of those that want to make America great again, believe things like Jim Crow laws and less health care coverage for Americans were some of the things that made America great.......Hell, some seem to think bringing back slavery would "make America great again"....

    Since the vast majority, if not all things government are generally contracted out to the private sector, those who think the private sector is the only way to go, should feel a whole lot better and more confident that it will all be handled correctly, right? After all, who makes America's weaponry? The U.S. government or private companies, FOR the government?

    If the only way to get things done is through a President with predominate characteristics and one of them is vindictiveness and revenge on people who will not kow tow to his holy self, then I'm all for getting things done. The only worry I have is that this President is unpredictable and willing to turn (on a dime) on anyone who he's best buds with at any given time, thus deals that may be looking good right now, could turn more than sour tomorrow.
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 13th September 2017 at 10:50 AM.
    Thanks from MaryAnne and EnigmaO01

  6. #56
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    44,251
    Thanks
    31537

    From
    Englewood,Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by KnotaFrayed View Post
    How is it we keep hearing from the same people that Americans are simultaneously the MOST taxed people on the planet, while they are warned about becoming like all those other "higher taxed" nations.

    Either these people lack the brain capacity to recognize that it is a shift of where they pay, not an addition to what they pay and that they can still add on and supplement to coverage or they know full well what it is all about, but oppose it because they profit from the way things are currently and fight all efforts to cut off their current feeding off the "health industry" gravy train. There are those who fear that such a shift would be successful and they would not just lose out on the profits they have been racking in, but politically, their years of fighting it, would not look good if it were passed and became a huge success. Then there are people who just do not like change, even if it is for the better.......If the change occurs without their support and they see it is for the better and a success, then some of them act as if it were their idea.........
    Robot brains?
    Thanks from EnigmaO01

  7. #57
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    12,966
    Thanks
    10759

    From
    Here
    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Robot brains?
    Could be.....or programmed (and paid) to robot the same memes over and over and over again.....by those who believe they are going to see their immense profits from the healthcare gravy train reduced because they won't be able to prey (and profit) as easily on the pain and suffering of Americans.
    Thanks from EnigmaO01

  8. #58
    Conservatively Liberal NiteGuy's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    17,043
    Thanks
    12442

    From
    Teardrop City
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
    If and when we get Socialized Helathcare, I will see most of my actual paycheck go bye-bye, for LESSER quality of healthcare, only for some fine bureaucrats to look at my file, and say "Fuck it, let's let this loser die. He has PAID taxes all his live, and now, he is old, and becoming a DOUBLE burden. Fuck him...."
    Nonsense, @Rorschach. What makes you think that you'll see a lesser quality of healthcare?

    Getting up in years, as I have, I know a lot of friends who have transitioned from private health insurance to Medicare. You know what? Not one of them that I know has complained that their level of healthcare has diminished in the least. They still go to the doctors / hospitals they went to before. If needed, the number and types of tests or procedures have not changed. In other words, there is no "lesser" care under Medicare.

    Now, it's true that your taxes will go up to pay for this. But they will not go up as much as what you are already paying under private insurance. For example, under single payer, your doctor/hospital will save on personnel costs, because they only need to process and send their claims to one organization, instead of needing the people to process claims to send to a dozen or more private insurance companies.

    Secondly, consider this: Let's assume a man on an individual private insurance premium. The average monthly premium runs anywhere from $400 to $700 depending on his general health and age. But that's not the only money he's going to be paying, is it? The average annual deductible for individual policies is $4,300. In other words, besides paying an average annual premium between $4800 and $8400, you have to pay a deductible of $4300 before your insurance even kicks in.

    Third, let's say, for the sake of argument, that your yearly insurance premium is $7200, and your yearly deductible is $4300. That's an annual healthcare bill of at least $11500 per year. Nearly every other European country - the Netherlands, Germany, France3, Ireland, etc. pay onlyabout half that per capita, per year. in other words, while your paying $11500 per year, Germany pays approximately $5800 per person, per year.

    So let's say we transition to a Medicare for all system. Would you be willing to have your taxes go up say, $6000 per year, while getting rid of your current private insurance with yearly premiums and deductibles that are costing you $11500 per year?


    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschach
    My only question, is if they will allow me some good drugs, or an instant death, or, if I will be relegated to dying a slow, miserable death on the whim of the State.....
    Nothing but pure FUD. Well done. But it still doesn't refute the facts.

  9. #59
    Banned Camp
    Joined
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    53,875
    Thanks
    19114

    From
    america
    Nonsense, @Rorschach. What makes you think that you'll see a lesser quality of healthcare?
    #1. Reviewing Socialized Health care in other nations.
    #2. Understanding numbers and math.
    #3. My own experiences (With "Tenncare," and, Obamacare....)
    #4. Basic observation.
    #5. My Grandfather, who was a doctor, my aunt and step-father (both nurses), and both my uncles (one was a paramedic, the other a therapist).

    Getting up in years, as I have, I know a lot of friends who have transitioned from private health insurance to Medicare. You know what? Not one of them that I know has complained that their level of healthcare has diminished in the least. They still go to the doctors / hospitals they went to before. If needed, the number and types of tests or procedures have not changed. In other words, there is no "lesser" care under Medicare.
    --I honestly hope that you are right, and I am wrong. I really do.

    Secondly, consider this: Let's assume a man on an individual private insurance premium. The average monthly premium runs anywhere from $400 to $700 depending on his general health and age. But that's not the only money he's going to be paying, is it? The average annual deductible for individual policies is $4,300. In other words, besides paying an average annual premium between $4800 and $8400, you have to pay a deductible of $4300 before your insurance even kicks in.
    --Okay. (I do assume, that the above does still cover doctor's visits, with co-pays, at least)

    Third, let's say, for the sake of argument, that your yearly insurance premium is $7200, and your yearly deductible is $4300. That's an annual healthcare bill of at least $11500 per year. Nearly every other European country - the Netherlands, Germany, France3, Ireland, etc. pay onlyabout half that per capita, per year. in other words, while your paying $11500 per year, Germany pays approximately $5800 per person, per year.
    --Okay. We are starting to get into the area of "smoke and mirrors" here.....but, okay.

    So let's say we transition to a Medicare for all system. Would you be willing to have your taxes go up say, $6000 per year, while getting rid of your current private insurance with yearly premiums and deductibles that are costing you $11500 per year?
    --Until I actually SEE it, I have to believe this is incorrect. The reason I say this is that it has been my experience that Government tends to be MORE wasteful and MORE expensive, than the private sector. I just find it difficult to believe that Congress can wave a magic wand, create a Single Payer, Socialized Healthcare system For ALL, and, we will ALL pay, less, while getting better care.

    That sounds like...."a political promise......"

    I do NOT trust "political promises."

    Nothing but pure FUD. Well done. But it still doesn't refute the facts.
    --What is "FUD???" And, your "Facts," are nothing more than your "OPINIONS."

    Mine are different as my experiences with government have been different.

    But, sure...just as soon as I see a plan, that can make me believe, USING REAL FACTS, and Standing up to REAL questions about it...that a slight increase in taxes will save me TWICE as much in healthcare costs, while giving me at least EQUAL Healthcare, I will be 100% beside you.

  10. #60
    Conservatively Liberal NiteGuy's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    17,043
    Thanks
    12442

    From
    Teardrop City
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
    --I hope you are right, I really do. But, see, I can do this thing called "numbers."
    Really? Well, here's some numbers you can do your thing on:

    There are fewer physicians per person than in most other OECD countries. In 2010, for instance, the U.S. had 2.4 practicing physicians per 1,000 people — well below below the OECD average of 3.1.

    The number of hospital beds in the U.S. was 2.6 per 1,000 population in 2009, lower than the OECD average of 3.4 beds.

    Life expectancy at birth increased by almost nine years between 1960 and 2010, but that’s less than the increase of over 15 years in Japan and over 11 years on average in OECD countries. The average American now lives 78.7 years in 2010, more than one year below the average of 79.8 years.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschach
    --I am all for a BASE line system of health care for the poor. What I do NOT want, is a Universal system, that expects ME to pay MORE, for LESS.
    You're already paying MORE for LESS than nearly every other country with universal healthcare. It's just that your not paying this cost in tax dollars. As noted in the statistics above, we have fewer physicians per 1000 people, fewer hospital beds per 1000 people, and despite a higher rate of healthcare spending, our outcomes are in most cases worse than those other countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschach
    Which is what will happen. I, and other responsible American Citizens will pay MORE. In return, our money can go to sex changes, plastic surgery, and other treatments for the indigent.
    For fuck's sake, @Rorschach! Under nearly every private insurance company in America today, and indeed, under Medicare as well, plastic surgery and sex change operations are not covered. they are considered elective surgery, and you need to pay for such things out of pocket.

    Now, I don't know what you mean by "other treatments for the indigent". Perhaps you could elaborate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschach
    Even as government CUTS some of the treatments, we receive under our current policies that WE pay for.......
    More paranoia. More FUD. You don't know that UHC will cut services, but you act as if it's a fait accompli.
    Last edited by NiteGuy; 13th September 2017 at 11:43 AM.
    Thanks from Rorschach and Pragmatist

Page 6 of 24 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Universal Health Care In Vermont
    By MaryAnne in forum Current Events
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 13th March 2017, 05:49 AM
  2. Universal health care unconstitutional?
    By Conservative15 in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 281
    Last Post: 23rd August 2009, 11:16 PM
  3. Universal Health Care
    By Burning Giraffe in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 455
    Last Post: 2nd May 2008, 12:20 AM
  4. We Already Have Universal Health Care
    By Burning Giraffe in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 20th October 2007, 10:21 AM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed