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Thread: Gun Control - Suggestions from Right-Wing Members

  1. #21
    the "good" prag pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    This one?

    FACT CHECK: Did Congress Legalize Gun Purchases for People With Mental Impairments?

    Las Vegas shooting: Trump halted bill on gun control for mentally ill | World | News | Express.co.uk

    Keep in mind,djinn, I am answering a question. Obama had signed the original. It was quietly repealed by Trump. Should be reinstated. My offering.

    Was the Las Vegas shooter ever diagnosed as mentally ill? (Confess i missed that detail...)

  2. #22
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    From The West Wing episode "Bartlet's Third State of the Union" (from 2001)

    "{I}f you combine all the populations of Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, and Australia you’ll get a population roughly the size of the United States. We had 32,000 gun deaths last year, they had 112. Do you think it’s because Americans are more homicidal by nature or do you think it’s because those guys have gun control laws?"

    In today's (more accurate) numbers:

    Population (numbers rounded):

    United Kingdom 65m
    France 67m
    Germany 81m
    Japan 126m
    Switzerland 8m
    Sweden 10m
    Denmark 6m
    Australia 23m

    United States 327m

    Total of the listed countries apart from the U.S. is 386m, so it almost holds. (I do not know where the show got its numbers from to begin with.) If we take out Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Australia (47m), we get to 339m, and that is close enough for a reasonable comparison.

    Gun deaths:

    United Kingdom 46
    France 35
    Germany 158
    Japan 11

    United States 9,960

    Here, we have an almost comparable population, but a number of gun deaths wildly disproportionate. UK, France, Germany and Japan had a total of 250 gun deaths; the U.S. had nearly 10,000, 40x greater than those other countries put together.

    Gun homicides and gun ownership by country - The Washington Post

    The numbers are a little dated, but there is no reason there has been a substantial worldwide change.

    So ... is it the gun control laws those other countries have, or are we just more homicidal by nature?
    Thanks from Babba, Leo2, Blues63 and 4 others

  3. #23
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    Was the Las Vegas shooter ever diagnosed as mentally ill? (Confess i missed that detail...)
    No one could try to kill that many people and be sane.

  4. #24
    the "good" prag pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    No one could try to kill that many people and be sane.
    Clever comeback. But doesn't fit well into this particular conversation.

  5. #25
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    No one could try to kill that many people and be sane.
    Sanity is a legal question. Mental illness is a medical one. pragmatic asked the latter, not the former.

  6. #26
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    Was the Las Vegas shooter ever diagnosed as mentally ill? (Confess i missed that detail...)
    Father on most wanted list,considered psychopath. Possible genes?

    Stephen Paddock's father was on FBI's 10 most wanted list | The Independent
    .

  7. #27
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Sanity is a legal question. Mental illness is a medical one. pragmatic asked the latter, not the former.
    I just posted some background on his Father. But you can not tell me anyone who is sane could Committee such a horrible crime. The man had 34 guns in his room,many more in his house.some converted to automatic. Legal or medical.

    Stephen Paddock's father was on FBI's 10 most wanted list | The Independent
    Last edited by MaryAnne; 3rd October 2017 at 12:46 AM.

  8. #28
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    So. Md.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    From The West Wing episode "Bartlet's Third State of the Union" (from 2001)

    "{I}f you combine all the populations of Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, and Australia you’ll get a population roughly the size of the United States. We had 32,000 gun deaths last year, they had 112. Do you think it’s because Americans are more homicidal by nature or do you think it’s because those guys have gun control laws?"

    In today's (more accurate) numbers:

    Population (numbers rounded):

    United Kingdom 65m
    France 67m
    Germany 81m
    Japan 126m
    Switzerland 8m
    Sweden 10m
    Denmark 6m
    Australia 23m

    United States 327m

    Total of the listed countries apart from the U.S. is 386m, so it almost holds. (I do not know where the show got its numbers from to begin with.) If we take out Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Australia (47m), we get to 339m, and that is close enough for a reasonable comparison.

    Gun deaths:

    United Kingdom 46
    France 35
    Germany 158
    Japan 11

    United States 9,960

    Here, we have an almost comparable population, but a number of gun deaths wildly disproportionate. UK, France, Germany and Japan had a total of 250 gun deaths; the U.S. had nearly 10,000, 40x greater than those other countries put together.

    Gun homicides and gun ownership by country - The Washington Post

    The numbers are a little dated, but there is no reason there has been a substantial worldwide change.

    So ... is it the gun control laws those other countries have, or are we just more homicidal by nature?
    That's always been my point. Americans aren't more homicidal. Our laws have not prevented the rate of these incidents and their laws have. It's that simple. It's a simple fact.

  9. #29
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    But you can not tell me anyone who is sane could Committee such a horrible crime.
    Again, sanity is a legal question, not a medical one.

    "Insane" means he did not understand the nature of what he was doing at the time he did it, and did not know that it was wrong to do so. While an evaulation of the defendant's mental state - i.e., illness or not - can be instructive in a particular case, a jury rather than a medical expert makes the decision as to the defendant's sanity.

    In contrast, "mental illness" means one has one or more conditions, as evaluated by an expert, as outlined in the DSM-V (the latest iteration of the DSM).

    So yes, a person could commit such a crime and be sane. He could understand what he was doing, know that it was wrong, and simply not care.
    Thanks from bajisima

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    From The West Wing episode "Bartlet's Third State of the Union" (from 2001)

    "{I}f you combine all the populations of Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, and Australia youíll get a population roughly the size of the United States. We had 32,000 gun deaths last year, they had 112. Do you think itís because Americans are more homicidal by nature or do you think itís because those guys have gun control laws?"

    In today's (more accurate) numbers:

    Population (numbers rounded):

    United Kingdom 65m
    France 67m
    Germany 81m
    Japan 126m
    Switzerland 8m
    Sweden 10m
    Denmark 6m
    Australia 23m

    United States 327m

    Total of the listed countries apart from the U.S. is 386m, so it almost holds. (I do not know where the show got its numbers from to begin with.) If we take out Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Australia (47m), we get to 339m, and that is close enough for a reasonable comparison.

    Gun deaths:

    United Kingdom 46
    France 35
    Germany 158
    Japan 11

    United States 9,960

    Here, we have an almost comparable population, but a number of gun deaths wildly disproportionate. UK, France, Germany and Japan had a total of 250 gun deaths; the U.S. had nearly 10,000, 40x greater than those other countries put together.

    Gun homicides and gun ownership by country - The Washington Post

    The numbers are a little dated, but there is no reason there has been a substantial worldwide change.

    So ... is it the gun control laws those other countries have, or are we just more homicidal by nature?
    Now we do have a second amendment law in this country. The other countries don't have that. And this is what's coming. People will try to claim that we are politicizing this horrible event. Remember Sandy Hook? They want to protect the right to possess these weapons despite these horrific events.

    Ironically, now we will need more safety, and that will play into the argument that we should have more guns.
    It will expand police power. It will expand police brutality.
    It will expand violating all of our civil rights except for the ones in the Second Amendment. There are 27 amendments to the Constitution and they are all equally important.

    Sent from my Z833 using Tapatalk
    Thanks from Leo2 and Blues63

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