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Thread: Gun Control - Suggestions from Right-Wing Members

  1. #51
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    Australia: 15 mass shootings between 1980 and 1997

    1997: gun restrictions introduced as a result of Port Arthur massacre (35 killed by lone gunman)

    Mass shootings since 1997: none.

    No NRA, but the SSAA are sane and were compliant with legislation
    "In 1996, after a gunman killed 35 people and wounded 18 others in Port Arthur, a former penal colony turned tourist attraction, Australians collectively decided not to follow what then-Prime Minister John Howard called “the American way” on guns."

    "Just 12 days after the massacre, Howard, a conservative, announced that he had convinced Australia’s states to ban automatic and semiautomatic weapons and instigated a gun buyback for high-powered and rapid-fire rifles. A uniform system for registering and licensing firearms was introduced."

    "A third of the guns in Australia were handed in to the government. Polls found that as much as 90 percent of the public approved of the stricter gun laws."

    "There had been 11 gun massacres in the decade preceding 1996, but there have been no mass shootings since. This is a source of national pride, though statisticians still argue about what caused the change."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.a98f94d87825



    Quite interesting that Australians seemed so immediately inspired by the idea of NOT following America with regard to how we have dealt with such events....I'm sure everyone could argue the reasons Australians reacted in such a way, so rapidly, but it sure does not suggest much regard for our capacity to deal with the problem and success there seems to indicate that NOT following the American way, was highly successful.......

    Perhaps it had something to do with a difference in attitude. The American "way" seems to be "I need a gun to shoot someone".....whereas people of other nations, some that still have lots of firearms, the attitude is "I use firearms for hunting and sport"

    In one situation, the need to have a firearm seems built on a level of paranoia about one's own government or fellow citizens ( a level that seems to be constantly stirred by a segment of America and lobbying groups, the NRA being one).......in other situations there is no urgency or absolute need to have a firearm, but they are useful for hunting and shooting sports.....I know that even here in the states were two states next to one another have low gun homicide/purposeful wound rates, but one has next to no gun laws, the other highly restrictive laws......

    I have relatives who live in both states......one in the state with next to no restrictions says the attitude is mostly similar to the idea that a firearm is useful for hunting and sports and very rarely, if ever are most of the residents of the state ever thinking they need to have firearms to shoot another human being. The relative in the other states says there is a mix of people's attitudes, with regard to the need to keep firearms.....some object to the restrictive laws, to other gun owners, the laws aren't a problem because they aren't thinking of a need to have a firearm for defense against other human beings......I think the difference may also be related to rural, versus urban.....
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 2nd October 2017 at 04:24 PM.
    Thanks from Claudius the God, Blues63 and Babba

  2. #52
    Junior Member Claudius the God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnotaFrayed View Post
    "In 1996, after a gunman killed 35 people and wounded 18 others in Port Arthur, a former penal colony turned tourist attraction, Australians collectively decided not to follow what then-Prime Minister John Howard called “the American way” on guns."

    "Just 12 days after the massacre, Howard, a conservative, announced that he had convinced Australia’s states to ban automatic and semiautomatic weapons and instigated a gun buyback for high-powered and rapid-fire rifles. A uniform system for registering and licensing firearms was introduced."

    "A third of the guns in Australia were handed in to the government. Polls found that as much as 90 percent of the public approved of the stricter gun laws."

    "There had been 11 gun massacres in the decade preceding 1996, but there have been no mass shootings since. This is a source of national pride, though statisticians still argue about what caused the change."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.a98f94d87825



    Quite interesting that Australians seemed so immediately inspired by the idea of NOT following America with regard to how we have dealt with such events....
    that is because Aussies are good people and have uncommonly uniform common sense....
    Thanks from Blues63 and KnotaFrayed

  3. #53
    Veteran Member PACE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius the God View Post
    Other nations solved this problem with a combination of legal actions and social pressure to rid themselves of these firearms. For some reason, America is addicted to guns and the idea of owning guns. This national obsession with guns goes back hundreds of years and may be part of who we are as a people. Some can say it was due to fear of the frontier, Indians, animals, outlaws, lawlessness and of course, slaves. I think all of them contributed to the concept of being armed. I have no desire to own a gun nor have I ever felt a gun would make me safer but many people feel differently. Even in the face of mass shootings like this one going back to the UT sniper in the 60s', gun owners and supporters never seem to make the connection that the laws and rights they enjoy as lawful gun owners will also give a criminal or an insane shooter the right to own guns. The gun lobby and industry turned military style weapons into an industry mass marketed by the NRA led by very obvious racial stereotyping to make people feel they were under threat constantly. Now we have 300 million guns out there, an unregulated gun industry, a powerful lobby that helps sell guns and stokes fear, a party (the GOP) that forgot they once were in favor of gun controls (Reagan and Brady) and these same groups will say its too late, the genie is out of the bottle. They may be right but as your old man told you over and over again, if you are in a hole, stop digging.
    Quite the schizophrenic existence isn't it?

    Let's break it down:

    The Conservatives who believe in less regulation also believe in law and order; without good stewardship of the industry that is specifically geared towards selling something that kills, they are hands off, because smaller government, yet,,, they are for law and order

    And yet again, they are for a well armed militia, because of a rogue government, which is based on law and order, except that law and order might be detrimental to their well being, therefore it is not law and order, it is lawlessness, which leaves them as judge, jury and executioner of those who are lawless, or rather rogue in the government, yet, they can't be, as they are the law. LEO's.

    Congress doesn't believe more laws that can't be enforced will reduce gun deaths, YET, regulating abortion and making it illegal will reduce abortions, how's that shit work?

    Americans like to think they are free, yet they are slaves to the industry that stokes up and fires up the belly of dissent and outrage every time one of these incidents occur; guns stock went up today, as it always does post one of these events, so in a sick sort of way, the gun industry benefits and so do their investors, except their investors are those who are against unregulated guns. Again, how's that work?

    Hunters in Germany actually attended classes to become a "jaeger" and also jaegers are the most well respected conservationists in Germany, here in the US, a quick gun safety course, some hours on the range, and viola! you are Grizzly Adams, yes, that's why people in Vermont tie red ribbons on their dogs during hunting season because morons from the city, go there and become Mountain Man for an extended weekend. That's pretty much bullshit no?

    Interesting how, left to their own designs, those against gun control and for law and order, yet, against rogue governments and law and order, would argue themselves into exhaustion in a forth night without any help from those of us who know that worshipping an iron god just ain't fittin.

    Regards
    Pace

  4. #54
    Junior Member Claudius the God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACE View Post
    Quite the schizophrenic existence isn't it?

    Let's break it down:

    The Conservatives who believe in less regulation also believe in law and order; without good stewardship of the industry that is specifically geared towards selling something that kills, they are hands off, because smaller government, yet,,, they are for law and order

    And yet again, they are for a well armed militia, because of a rogue government, which is based on law and order, except that law and order might be detrimental to their well being, therefore it is not law and order, it is lawlessness, which leaves them as judge, jury and executioner of those who are lawless, or rather rogue in the government, yet, they can't be, as they are the law. LEO's.

    Congress doesn't believe more laws that can't be enforced will reduce gun deaths, YET, regulating abortion and making it illegal will reduce abortions, how's that shit work?

    Americans like to think they are free, yet they are slaves to the industry that stokes up and fires up the belly of dissent and outrage every time one of these incidents occur; guns stock went up today, as it always does post one of these events, so in a sick sort of way, the gun industry benefits and so do their investors, except their investors are those who are against unregulated guns. Again, how's that work?

    Hunters in Germany actually attended classes to become a "jaeger" and also jaegers are the most well respected conservationists in Germany, here in the US, a quick gun safety course, some hours on the range, and viola! you are Grizzly Adams, yes, that's why people in Vermont tie red ribbons on their dogs during hunting season because morons from the city, go there and become Mountain Man for an extended weekend. That's pretty much bullshit no?

    Interesting how, left to their own designs, those against gun control and for law and order, yet, against rogue governments and law and order, would argue themselves into exhaustion in a forth night without any help from those of us who know that worshipping an iron god just ain't fittin.

    Regards
    Pace
    I think the whole gun fetish started with slavery and reconstruction...we also had almost no police force anywhere up until the mid 1800's. This is part of our DNA it seems, nothing will affect it. I once asked a gun nut how many people had to die before he changed his mind, he said there was no number because the more people get killed in this manner, the more he feels like he needs to be armed. It's a vicious circle.
    Thanks from PACE and Babba

  5. #55
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Again - I'm not asking for cure-all solutions.

    If you think that one of your ideas stands a real chance of reducing gun violence by just 10%, say so.

    By the same token, if you think it is completely impossible to mitigate gun violence to any extent - you can say that too.
    I did, I said increase punishments for criminal gun use.

  6. #56
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACE View Post
    Quite the schizophrenic existence isn't it?

    Let's break it down:

    The Conservatives who believe in less regulation also believe in law and order; without good stewardship of the industry that is specifically geared towards selling something that kills, they are hands off, because smaller government, yet,,, they are for law and order

    And yet again, they are for a well armed militia, because of a rogue government, which is based on law and order, except that law and order might be detrimental to their well being, therefore it is not law and order, it is lawlessness, which leaves them as judge, jury and executioner of those who are lawless, or rather rogue in the government, yet, they can't be, as they are the law. LEO's.

    Congress doesn't believe more laws that can't be enforced will reduce gun deaths, YET, regulating abortion and making it illegal will reduce abortions, how's that shit work?

    Americans like to think they are free, yet they are slaves to the industry that stokes up and fires up the belly of dissent and outrage every time one of these incidents occur; guns stock went up today, as it always does post one of these events, so in a sick sort of way, the gun industry benefits and so do their investors, except their investors are those who are against unregulated guns. Again, how's that work?

    Hunters in Germany actually attended classes to become a "jaeger" and also jaegers are the most well respected conservationists in Germany, here in the US, a quick gun safety course, some hours on the range, and viola! you are Grizzly Adams, yes, that's why people in Vermont tie red ribbons on their dogs during hunting season because morons from the city, go there and become Mountain Man for an extended weekend. That's pretty much bullshit no?

    Interesting how, left to their own designs, those against gun control and for law and order, yet, against rogue governments and law and order, would argue themselves into exhaustion in a forth night without any help from those of us who know that worshipping an iron god just ain't fittin.

    Regards
    Pace
    You guys claim that making abortions illegal won't reduce them yet you think making guns illegal will.

    See how that works?

  7. #57
    Bizarroland Observer Thx1138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    It's obvious that conservatives aren't hot on gun control. Whether it's keeping them out of the hands of the mentally unstable, or putting limits on clip sizes, or basic gun registration, conservatives are largely united against them.

    Therefore, I invite them to propose ideas that will mitigate gun violence in our country. I'm not asking for ideas that will "solve" the problem 100%. I'm not looking for ideas that would have specifically have prevented the recent tragedy in Las Vegas. I'm just looking for general conservative-friendly ideas that will help - even a little.

    I'm respectfully asking left-wingers to refrain from dismissive jabs and insults. I've kept this OP free of them, and I'm trying to make this a sincere, open invitation.

    As a conservative, what suggestions do you endorse that could mitigate the problem of gun violence in the United States?
    I have been saying for six years now: Put restrictions on handguns to people who need one for their job, keep non-concealable long guns legal for home defense.

    And no one has come up with any cogent reason why this won't reduce gun violence, I don't believe it has ever been addressed... people are too busy with their "I got you last" contest and real workable solutions are swept to the side.

    So, let the nonsense commence, let's hear all the tired slogans repeated: "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have..."

    Thx
    Thanks from Babba and Blues63

  8. #58
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnotaFrayed View Post
    "In 1996, after a gunman killed 35 people and wounded 18 others in Port Arthur, a former penal colony turned tourist attraction, Australians collectively decided not to follow what then-Prime Minister John Howard called “the American way” on guns."

    "Just 12 days after the massacre, Howard, a conservative, announced that he had convinced Australia’s states to ban automatic and semiautomatic weapons and instigated a gun buyback for high-powered and rapid-fire rifles. A uniform system for registering and licensing firearms was introduced."

    "A third of the guns in Australia were handed in to the government. Polls found that as much as 90 percent of the public approved of the stricter gun laws."

    "There had been 11 gun massacres in the decade preceding 1996, but there have been no mass shootings since. This is a source of national pride, though statisticians still argue about what caused the change."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.a98f94d87825



    Quite interesting that Australians seemed so immediately inspired by the idea of NOT following America with regard to how we have dealt with such events....
    We are not Australia.

    Plus we have about 10x the amount of guns as they did in society.

    You can't have a buyback program here.

  9. #59
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    I did, I said increase punishments for criminal gun use.
    And how many times would you apply the death penalty to the same murderer? Or perhaps you meant to increase his sentence from 120 years to 200 years ... ?
    Thanks from Babba

  10. #60
    Veteran Member PACE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    You guys claim that making abortions illegal won't reduce them yet you think making guns illegal will.

    See how that works?
    No, not what I said, the argument is criminals will always get guns, somehow right wingers believe making abortion illegal will reduce it.

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