Thread: Respecting the flag

Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey

Wrong. The flag represents certain principles - such as freedom of speech. It is a bigger disrespect to the country to oppose those principles than to act a certain way concerning the flag. As I indicated, the complainers are upset that they are being disrespected, not on behalf of the flag. Merely kneeling is not any kind of disrespect, except those who do not like the message being expressed.

Of course, the kneeling is being done during the national anthem rather than the Pledge of Allegiance. But the same free speech principle applies either way. You are upset because you think you are being disrespected, not on behalf of anyone or anything else, because you do not like the message. Any statement to the contrary is simply disingenuous.

Again, you would think there are no actual issues the government needs to deal with, from such complaints, instead of the government deflecting to something purely emotional in order to distract from its paralyzation, ineffectiveness and inability to agree with itself what it needs to do despite being controlled by a single party.

I think you lost him with the words that were longer than 4 letters. Keep it simple. Kneeling not bad. Kneeling good.
The flag is not America, America is the people.

Ian remember, if a 3rd grader can't understand your posts it's going to go right over the head of these Trumpsters.Remember anybody that went beyond high school is considered elite.They are the product of all that home schooling and being related to everybody in town. At least that's what it seems from the Trumpsters that still support the ass hole to this day. The ones with some brains got off the Trump train quite a while ago.

Great thread. The Flag means something different to everyone. As far as I'm concerned the whole National Anthem thing is way over done. Leave it for the Olympics. You want to honor a Vet then donate your time or money to a Veterans cause. This isn't the greatest country in the world and hasn't been for decades......and yes, they want this guy to run for Senator.

Patriot Rock.jpg

Originally Posted by fenrir

Hmmm, Africa is a hell hole. Mexico is a failed narco state where the real power resides with drug cartel s so it isn't much better. The last time I was there I was robbed by the police!

None of that has anything to do with freedom of speech (which you bolded), or any other principle of democratic governance.

Originally Posted by fenrir

The communists managed to kill 100 million people in the 20th century. It makes me wonder about your cultural values.

Personal attack - and unrelated to the post you were responding to. My "cultural values" are colored by a fascist (i.e., right-wing) government and society that attempted to wipe out all my relatives before I was even born.

Originally Posted by fenrir

I'm not much of a patriot these days. I don't much care for Washington or the political elite who own it.

Those two statements are unrelated. One can be a patriot and oppose the government - something lost on the right-wing members of this board.

Besides, if you are indeed "not much of a patriot these days," then you have nothing to complain about.

Originally Posted by fenrir

Still, I don't disrespect the flag.

Perhaps not, but you apparently disrespect the country and its principles. You just refuse to show it for some reason.

Originally Posted by fenrir

That's behavior best left to Democratic party demographics.

More attack - which is really what your entire post is about. You have not, in fact, responded to anything I said, including the you bolded (such bolding suggesting that it is that to which you are responding).

Which is more important - respect for the symbol, or respect for the substance of what the symbol represents? If the latter, then you have nothing to complain about. If the former, then go join a Party somewhere that symbols mask rather than represent the substance of a country.

Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey

None of that has anything to do with freedom of speech (which you bolded), or any other principle of democratic governance.

Meh, I slipped. For what it's worth freedom of speech isn't a big deal in Africa, Mexico, and the Soviets, do I really hafta' tell you what the Soviets felt about free speech?

Personal attack - and unrelated to the post you were responding to. My "cultural values" are colored by a fascist (i.e., right-wing) government and society that attempted to wipe out all my relatives before I was even born.

Happened in Europe by a socialist regime in Germany. The Soviets treated jews were treated badly.

Those two statements are unrelated. One can be a patriot and oppose the government - something lost on the right-wing members of this board.

Micah Johnson "patriot."



Looks like a "patriot" of mexico to me. But then I'm not a highly educated lawyer. Say, where did you get that degree again?

Besides, if you are indeed "not much of a patriot these days," then you have nothing to complain about.

....and yet I'm not flying the flags of foreign nations or standing on the us flag.

Perhaps not, but you apparently disrespect the country and its principles. You just refuse to show it for some reason.

You mean like killing police officers because they're white and claiming parts of this country for Mexico, you mean like that?

More attack - which is really what your entire post is about. You have not, in fact, responded to anything I said, including the you bolded (such bolding suggesting that it is that to which you are responding).

Oh, I dunno'. I managed to get a "rise" outta' you.

Which is more important - respect for the symbol, or respect for the substance of what the symbol represents? If the latter, then you have nothing to complain about. If the former, then go join a Party somewhere that symbols mask rather than represent the substance of a country.

How bout I just remain Captain Obvious when it comes to you Democratic voting "patriots?" How bout I just do that?

See what I mean in my post #11 Ian? ^^^^^Enough said.

Originally Posted by Leo2

I am obviously not au fait with the situation, but I thought the furore has come about as a result of NFL players not standing for the national anthem. How does the flag come into the discussion?

Surely flag protocol is a different issue from standing for the national anthem (which AFIK is not required by law in any developed nation). If we had to stand whenever the national flag was flying - nothing would ever get done, given that most national flags are flown 24 hours a day.

The flag is part of the ceremony. Participants are invited to face the flag as they sing--the song is, after all, about the flag.

Originally Posted by Eve1

Maybe you should start protesting Trump apparel, it seems he uses the flag to sell merchandise and make a profit.

To be fair, most of what we saw as "flag apparel" isn't that. It's bunting. It's perfectly acceptable to wear red, white and blue including various versions of stars and stripes--so long as it isn't an actual flag.

Originally Posted by fenrir

No respect for the flag, no respect for the country it represents. I'd say that's serious.

Self explanatory.



California, of course.



Bernie rally in philly.

I'll give you the first one. Personally I think it's kind of silly to act like the flag is some holy icon that must be handled like a holy object, but fine. If you want to worship the state as though it is a religion, fine.

But what is wrong with the second image? Someone wrote Fuck Trump on a sign before he was even elected? Does the presence of a Mexican flag anger you now too?

How deep is your irrational hatred of freedom of speech and assembly?

Originally Posted by fenrir

No respect for the flag, no respect for the country it represents. I'd say that's serious.

Self explanatory.



California, of course.



Bernie rally in philly.

The flag is merely a symbol. When citizens feel the government has fallen short of the guarantees of civil rights we all feel is our birthright, those citizens have a right and even a duty to protest.

Loud, noisy, attention-grabbing protests meant to inspire discussion and change.

Originally Posted by Rasselas

To be fair, most of what we saw as "flag apparel" isn't that. It's bunting. It's perfectly acceptable to wear red, white and blue including various versions of stars and stripes--so long as it isn't an actual flag.

He uses the image of the flag on T-shirts (not just the colors) and I believe that is against some sort of code of conduct concerning the flag as posted here in this thread. Yes, I just double checked, and it is specifically mentioned in that code (see P#1) that this is a NO NO.