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Thread: Respecting the flag

  1. #41
    Vexatious Correspondent Leo2's Avatar
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    Respecting the national flag is a complex issue for me. The object itself is simply an identifying insignia, and as such, hardly sacrosanct. But it does have a greater significance embodied in how it is perceived by the citizens of the country it represents - and therein lies the crux of this matter. Respect is not something which can be legislated or enforced, and the lawmakers in every democratic society realise this - ergo the lack of acts enforcing overt respect for national symbols.

    If we want to show respect, by standing or bowing the head, for our national insignia and anthems, we must be free to do so. However enforced displays of respect have little to do with genuine respect, and we should not have the right to expect others to comply with what we consider appropriate overt respect.

    Having said that, my own attitude to the situation is one of compliance, inasmuch as I am happy to stand for any decent nation's anthem, and would consider it ill-manners on my part to refuse to do so. I would also likewise not hesitate to show respect for anyone's national flag, even though I may not necessarily agree with that nation's foreign or domestic policies.

    What I do not like to see is unnecessarily jingoistic displays involving the national flag, and I also do not like to see the national flag used as a pattern for clothing of any sort. There are those who contend that the national flag pattern is not an actual flag, so no breach of flag protocol is committed. I would counter with the assertion that a flag, national or otherwise, is no more than a pattern on material, and any significance lies in that particular pattern, not the fabric or other material upon which it is printed. Therefore to use that pattern for the purpose of personal adornment is not only inappropriate but disrespectful.

    The Stars and Stripes signify the original 13 colonies and the present 50 states - these have historical significance, and are a pattern which should be respected as such. Similarly with the Union Flag - it represents the union of three sovereign states of great antiquity and considerable achievement - the pattern is not one of casual adornment thought up by some advertising agency.

    Neither this -



    nor this -



    nor even this -



    Are appropriate use of the national emblem, nor does their use as apparel make the wearer any more patriotic.
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  2. #42
    The Covfefe are Coming! BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    Mr. pill,

    I fear in your desire to attract my attention, you posted something that was not even closely related to this thread...

    If you only knew the weight of being the flame that the moths attracted to my charisma and magnetism flock to....
    If you weren't so dense from imagined charisma and magnetism, you would have noticed in that video a t-shirt worn by a proud alt-right, white-nationalist with balls colored in our nations flag.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterPill View Post
    If you weren't so dense from imagined charisma and magnetism, you would have noticed in that video a t-shirt worn by a proud alt-right, white-nationalist with balls colored in our nations flag.
    Mr. pill,

    So you agree the scumbag anti-American football players are scum then?

    Nice to see we are in agreement.

  4. #44
    The Covfefe are Coming! BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    Mr. pill,

    So you agree the scumbag anti-American football players are scum then?

    Nice to see we are in agreement.
    On your being dense from imagined charisma and magnetism, we are definitely in agreement.
    Last edited by BitterPill; 10th October 2017 at 03:19 PM.
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  5. #45
    Proud deplorable Bigot Outdraw Poker Champion, Colinks :Swap Champion
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    Quote Originally Posted by the watchman View Post
    which business rights specifically are you referring to?
    The right of a business owner to profit from the business and to set rules concerning actions that harm said business.

    Business owners are still allowed to run their own business right? In this case players would still maintain all their rights, and if in acting on them their acts are detrimental, consequences would be levied.

  6. #46
    Proud deplorable Bigot Outdraw Poker Champion, Colinks :Swap Champion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Wrong. The flag represents certain principles - such as freedom of speech. It is a bigger disrespect to the country to oppose those principles than to act a certain way concerning the flag. As I indicated, the complainers are upset that they are being disrespected, not on behalf of the flag. Merely kneeling is not any kind of disrespect, except those who do not like the message being expressed.

    Of course, the kneeling is being done during the national anthem rather than the Pledge of Allegiance. But the same free speech principle applies either way. You are upset because you think you are being disrespected, not on behalf of anyone or anything else, because you do not like the message. Any statement to the contrary is simply disingenuous.

    Again, you would think there are no actual issues the government needs to deal with, from such complaints, instead of the government deflecting to something purely emotional in order to distract from its paralyzation, ineffectiveness and inability to agree with itself what it needs to do despite being controlled by a single party.
    I agree they have the right to do it. I also agree the timing of it is disrespectful to the flag. And people are free to decide for themselves individually if they feel thatís the case. If enough people feel chafed and the NFL is harmed in some way then I see a business that has a right to protect its interests. Everyone acting within their rights, people making choices of whether their protest is worth the consequence, etc. thatís how the system is supposed to work. It seems to be working fine.

  7. #47
    Official HayJenn fan boi knight's Avatar
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    Fuck the flag if that's what Forrest Trump represents.
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  8. #48
    Shiny Purple Member namvet69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metheron View Post
    I agree they have the right to do it. I also agree the timing of it is disrespectful to the flag. And people are free to decide for themselves individually if they feel thatís the case. If enough people feel chafed and the NFL is harmed in some way then I see a business that has a right to protect its interests. Everyone acting within their rights, people making choices of whether their protest is worth the consequence, etc. thatís how the system is supposed to work. It seems to be working fine.
    How can one be disrespectful to a piece of cloth? Taunt it with "look at your low thread count!" Or "Hey, flag! Why you got that pole up your ass?"

  9. #49
    Shiny Purple Member namvet69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    Mr. pill,

    So you agree the scumbag anti-American football players are scum then?

    Nice to see we are in agreement.
    So, to protest non violently makes one a scumbag? What does that make Trump's great silent majority when talking about white supremists, skinheads, and so-called nationalists who beat, shoot and run people over with their car? Looking for someone to agree with you? Just look those folks up.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    Mr. RNG,

    What's your point? The Code allows for displaying the flag horizontally (just not carried horizontally, as in a parade).
    How do you get that? Carrying means being held and moved. That's happening to the flag in that picture. You've got a very punctilious interpretation there.

    And where in those other pictures is a flag being used into wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery?
    If we stipulate, what about all the other rules mentioned in the post?

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