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Thread: Is political ideology more important than sexual harrassment or assault?

  1. #31
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    I don't agree that there is no way to regulate it. Words like fact and opinion have specific meanings, so you can create rules from those meanings. Also, there are some things that have been deliberately posted that likely were known to be untrue. Then you have different outlets... there are some media that are not news and have never been news, but dress their editorials up like it were news. These are things that can be fixed.
    Apart from libel, the problem with your idea is that a government agency must carry out this determination. The marketplace now punishes those news outlets who engage in abusive practices, and does so very, very poorly.

    But that is still superior to allowing the government to censor the press, IMO.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    The same thing is happening on the left. The moderates are shouted down by the extremists and their voice is lost in the din. Both sides of the spectrum are tending toward the extremes of their ideologies currently, and it is a little disturbing.
    I think what is actually happening is that the right wing kicked off a relentless propaganda machine decades ago, allied themselves with preachers, and have been going at it non-stop ever since, driving us further and further to the right. At this point, a moderate is a good bit right of what used to be a moderate. And anyone left of those "moderates" is a radical. You could espouse standard moderate policies from 45 years ago and people would call you a radical leftist. That should tell us something.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    The difference is that democrats didn't promote themselves as the party of family values.
    One of the worst things for the country is that moderate conservatism, fiscal conservatism, social conservatism, "family values," and evangelical and devout Christianity are often regarded as bundled under one big "conservative" or GOP umbrella. "Family values" should not even be automatically associated with Christianity or the GOP at all. Family values should be a cultural thing, not a political thing. It should be synonymous with family planning, effective birth control, intense focus on meeting the developmental needs of youth, two-parent households, inclusive of gays and lesbians, and so forth. Urban areas need family values. Immigrant families need family values. Gays and lesbians need family values. Poor rural whites need family values. Everyone needs family values, because that keeps you focused on cooperatively meeting the needs of youth, and this means staying focused on financial security and sustainability for your family and community, which leads to better and more collaborative decision-making. That makes family values a huge weapon against poverty and inequality.

    Christianity should not be regarded by anyone as the way to have "family values." Christianity is entitled to no monopoly on what constitutes family values, nor is the GOP. It is entirely possible for a Christian family to have warped "family values" because the people in that family, Christianity notwithstanding, happen to have psychological or other problems.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 13th November 2017 at 12:08 PM.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Apart from libel, the problem with your idea is that a government agency must carry out this determination. The marketplace now punishes those news outlets who engage in abusive practices, and does so very, very poorly.

    But that is still superior to allowing the government to censor the press, IMO.
    Deregulation rears its ugly head. If corporations are blocked from buying up every single media outlet across the country and controlling all of the messaging from one place, news outlets would have to compete to differentiate themselves, as they once did. In that climate, one thing they could sell was reliability, fairness, honesty, accuracy. Quality, in a nutshell. Now it's a race to the bottom because there are advertising dollars to collect and we've all long since agreed (apparently) that the content is irrelevant, just keep'em ringing those cash registers.

  5. #35
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    The same thing is happening on the left. The moderates are shouted down by the extremists and their voice is lost in the din. Both sides of the spectrum are tending toward the extremes of their ideologies currently, and it is a little disturbing.
    I disagree. On the left, those we might label "extremists" include the Occupy Wall Street types, Anonymous, maybe some Sanders supporters. These people seem to me to be similar to Black Lives Matter people -- they elevate issues to the top which most liberals seem to feel are fringe issues.

    And I think they are vitally important voices.

  6. #36
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by splansing View Post
    Deregulation rears its ugly head. If corporations are blocked from buying up every single media outlet across the country and controlling all of the messaging from one place, news outlets would have to compete to differentiate themselves, as they once did. In that climate, one thing they could sell was reliability, fairness, honesty, accuracy. Quality, in a nutshell. Now it's a race to the bottom because there are advertising dollars to collect and we've all long since agreed (apparently) that the content is irrelevant, just keep'em ringing those cash registers.
    True, and this is worrisome. But it is offset by the internet and the corporate news outlets inability to control the message.

  7. #37
    Telecastin' Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    I disagree. On the left, those we might label "extremists" include the Occupy Wall Street types, Anonymous, maybe some Sanders supporters. These people seem to me to be similar to Black Lives Matter people -- they elevate issues to the top which most liberals seem to feel are fringe issues.

    And I think they are vitally important voices.

    I had Antifa in mind when I wrote that, so I was thinking of the extreme of the extremists I suppose.
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  8. #38
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    I had Antifa in mind when I wrote that, so I was thinking of the extreme of the extremists I suppose.
    Fair enough, but opposing fascism is not actually a un-liberal POV.

    Antifa is only extreme in its avowed willingness to engage in violence to achieve that opposition.

  9. #39
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    They really can't. Low intelligence, personality, laziness, self-centeredness, apathy, for whatever combination of reasons, they are too bored and disinterested in deeper understanding of issues to bother following them. But one thing is decided. They will always vote _____.

    I can always tell when the cable news stations are in hyper-obsession mode about the latest circus event based on how many dozens of threads are started about it around here. Count the Roy Moore threads. People are drones about this stuff. Parrots.
    for decades the average citizens have been denied their views as our politicians have made all the decisions for them. this is the major contributing factor in what we see today. if your views are ignored for decades, you become, in general, disinterested and marginalized. eventually, if this gets worse, the pitchforks will emerge and there will be trouble. while I don't advocate such a reaction, things must change radically to avoid it. will they change enough? time will tell.
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  10. #40
    Telecastin' Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Fair enough, but opposing fascism is not actually a un-liberal POV.

    Antifa is only extreme in its avowed willingness to engage in violence to achieve that opposition.
    I agree, being anti fascist has been a core tenet of my entire life. The Nazis and the Jap took a few of my family's previous generation and I bear the remnants of the hate of their generation.

    But the proclivity toward violence makes a mockery of their stance, for they have begun to emulate the Brownshirts of the '30's.
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