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Thread: Capitalism - a challenge

  1. #11
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    ... Is there anything you do that’s not dictated by capitalism?

    Think of your activities. Are any of them not dictated or governed by capitalism?

    If so, name them.
    That's rather a silly question. We live in a capitalist society, like it or not. If you were addressing people living under a communist system, you could substitute the words in your OP questions, and validly pose them as a defense of communism.
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  2. #12
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    The main point so far is that you couldn’t answer the question. This is the same with most people. Now why could that be? A simple question like, “Is there anything you do that’s not dictated by capitalism?” and you just cannot answer.

    I think the reason is that you begin with relish, assuming there will be many examples. You think of something, like taking a whiz in your john. But wait. The john was made in a factory. Capitalism. Oh well, how about just sitting down and doing nothing? But wait. Where do you sit down? Unless you go way out into the wilderness, the spot you sit on will be dictated by capitalism. For instance, you sit down on your footpath. Won’t work; made with machines; same with the road. How about a field? Wait – who mows it? Who owns it? There are machines, banks, loans and money connected to it. Capitalism. It goes on and on. Even when you sit in the wilderness – wait. What about the clothes you’re wearing? Oops. You’ll need to take those off. Walk away and find a spot to sit down on without the protection of your shoes, pants and underpants. Sit there, and finally, you can say it’s not dictated by capitalism. Or can you? Did you forget about the food inside you, that’s giving you energy? Where did it come from? Oh yeah, the supermarket. Also, did you drive? Cars. Capitalism. So it turns out it isn’t so easy. I’m sure you tried before giving up. Then you thought you would go on about the ebils of capitalism instead. It’s funny though, that since capitalism rules your life so completely, with your enthusiastic permission, you would have the gall to criticize it.



    China’s capitalism is the best example of the crony capitalism you mentioned before, since the communist dictatorship there decides who will run businesses and the whole system is entirely corrupt, infested with bribery and kickbacks.
    You have no point. The US is a capitalist country, I worked for capitalist businesses all my life. No one has posted a thread on this board crying about capitalism, except you. Does it have flaws? Sure. Again, what is your fucking point?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    That's rather a silly question. We live in a capitalist society, like it or not. If you were addressing people living under a communist system, you could substitute the words in your OP questions, and validly pose them as a defense of communism.
    I’m happy to let the question apply to homes in communist countries, so a person could suggest a soviet made car, kept in a Soviet Russian’s home’s garage, for instance. I would then point out that the soviet car was made by copying cars made by capitalists, in assembly line factories that were also copied from capitalists, with materials that were sometimes imported from capitalist countries, and other times mined in Soviet Russia, but using machines that were, once again copied from capitalist machines. Everything you saw in Soviet Russia, from electric light bulbs to trams, can be traced back to capitalism.

  4. #14
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    I’m happy to let the question apply to homes in communist countries, so a person could suggest a soviet made car, kept in a Soviet Russian’s home’s garage, for instance. I would then point out that the soviet car was made by copying cars made by capitalists, in assembly line factories that were also copied from capitalists, with materials that were sometimes imported from capitalist countries, and other times mined in Soviet Russia, but using machines that were, once again copied from capitalist machines. Everything you saw in Soviet Russia, from electric light bulbs to trams, can be traced back to capitalism.
    The 80's called, they want their Soviet Union fear back....
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  5. #15
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    I’m happy to let the question apply to homes in communist countries, so a person could suggest a soviet made car, kept in a Soviet Russian’s home’s garage, for instance. I would then point out that the soviet car was made by copying cars made by capitalists, in assembly line factories that were also copied from capitalists, with materials that were sometimes imported from capitalist countries, and other times mined in Soviet Russia, but using machines that were, once again copied from capitalist machines. Everything you saw in Soviet Russia, from electric light bulbs to trams, can be traced back to capitalism.
    What about inventions resulting from NASA research and other federal funding?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spinoff_technologies
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  6. #16
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Another one... Europe and the Americas have the first- and second-lowest incidence rate of food contamination in the world. They also have the first- and second-lowest amount of federal oversight with regard to food processing regulations. As such, you can eat your lunch today with little fear of food poisoning.

    WHO | WHO?s first ever global estimates of foodborne diseases find children under 5 account for almost one third of deaths

  7. #17
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    I asked the following question of Lefties many times, and never received a good answer:

    “How many of the thousands of things in your home are not the result of capitalism?”

    Out of thousands I’ve asked, only three or four people tried to answer. One said his ‘fingernail cuttings’. I pointed out he would have used clippers, and he said he tore them off with his teeth. I pointed out that in the wild his nails would be worn to the hub so there would be nothing to grip onto with his teeth, so that answer failed. Someone else said ‘a pile of dust’. I said that in the wild it would be hard to have a pile of dust because of the damp, so that fizzled out. Another person said his ‘I love Stalin’ T-shirt, and we all know why that answer failed.

    Anyway, nobody answered it, so now I’ll try another:

    Is there anything you do that’s not dictated by capitalism?

    Think of your activities. Are any of them not dictated or governed by capitalism?

    If so, name them.

    You're sort of implying that capitalism is necessary for those things, which clearly it isn't. Like saying that in the pre-capitalist US clothing was produced by slave picked cotton, that clothing was "the result of slavery". I suppose it is true that it was the result of slavery, but clearly we don't think it was necessary to have slavery to have clothing. You seem to think that capitalism is necessary to have the things we have. If so, why?
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  8. #18
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    You're sort of implying that capitalism is necessary for those things, which clearly it isn't. Like saying that in the pre-capitalist US clothing was produced by slave picked cotton, that clothing was "the result of slavery". I suppose it is true that it was the result of slavery, but clearly we don't think it was necessary to have slavery to have clothing. You seem to think that capitalism is necessary to have the things we have. If so, why?
    Some weird conflation of capitalism and communism in his rabid mind? You can never figure these fringe nutters...
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  9. #19
    Vexatious Correspondent Leo2's Avatar
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    I fear the OP is conflating invention, and the evolution of manufacturing, with a common economic system. Of course all the household goods and machines we use would have been invented under any economic system, and the basis of most were. The discovery of fire and the invention of the wheel were not dependent upon the philosophies of Adam Smith or John Maynard Keynes. Capitalism is just one of the economic systems which have been extant throughout history, and is neither the fount of knowledge nor the mother of invention. It is favoured by the haves, as it dovetails neatly with selfishness and exploitation.

    His is a nonsensical thesis which should not be indulged by further response - a balance of free enterprise and socialism is what makes the most successful societies on earth.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    I asked the following question of Lefties many times, and never received a good answer:

    “How many of the thousands of things in your home are not the result of capitalism?”

    Out of thousands I’ve asked, only three or four people tried to answer. One said his ‘fingernail cuttings’. I pointed out he would have used clippers, and he said he tore them off with his teeth. I pointed out that in the wild his nails would be worn to the hub so there would be nothing to grip onto with his teeth, so that answer failed. Someone else said ‘a pile of dust’. I said that in the wild it would be hard to have a pile of dust because of the damp, so that fizzled out. Another person said his ‘I love Stalin’ T-shirt, and we all know why that answer failed.

    Anyway, nobody answered it, so now I’ll try another:

    Is there anything you do that’s not dictated by capitalism?

    Think of your activities. Are any of them not dictated or governed by capitalism?

    If so, name them.
    Capitalism doesn't "dictate" or "govern" anything, and I don't see the value in the exercise of tying everything that exists in the world to capitalism. At the core of capitalism is trade, which people will always try to do to mutually and collaboratively improve their quality of life.

    The biggest reason, really the only reason, that capitalist systems had such a brilliant record of raising society's living standards broadly, was that production required broad participation (labor). We need to be anticipating how society will function with such advancements that broad participation is not required. If high human participation is no longer required to produce things, then huge swaths of the population are not engaging in trade, and the rising tide then stops lifting all boats.

    I'm not anti-capitalist. Looking back the last two centuries, capitalism drove rapidly accelerating technological advancements and improved living standards worldwide. But I also see some of the recent advancements as being revolutionary in ways that will decrease capitalism's ability to raise living standards as broadly as it once did. The most amazing technological and economic advancements will involve no longer needing to employ large numbers of people. That's what makes them advancements. If large numbers of people have nothing competitive to sell that others want to buy, but selling something is the only way for them to get their needs met, capitalism has a new kind of problem.
    Thanks from Blues63 and StanStill

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