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Thread: California Parents Barred from Opting Kids Out of Mandatory LGBT-Inclusive Textbooks

  1. #61
    Moderator HayJenn's Avatar
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    Under the law, social sciences curriculum in California and the United States must include the contributions of LGBT Americans, people with disabilities and members of other cultural groups.

    The newly approved textbooks also include more information on the farm labor movement and the role Filipinos played in it; information about the Mexican Repatriation Program, which illegally deported thousands of Mexican-Americans in the 1930s, many of whom were U.S. citizens; more details on African-American history, specifically the institution of slavery; and more on the plight of Native Americans in California’s missions.

    https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2017/11/15...-lgbt-history/

    Again, much ado about nothing.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    Is sex education (or whatever the term) a standard part of the current curriculum in grade schools??

    Really have no idea. (It's was not when i was a kid....)
    My child viewed a film in school in grade six. Parents were allowed to opt out. California law does not require schools to provide sex education, but if they do, it has to treat sexual minorities with equal respect to other sorts of sexuality--and parents are specifically allowed to opt out of that program, if it's provided.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    Relevance to my point?
    The point is if you provide information withe predetermined outcome, that is indoctrination and brainwashing. If you provide information so people can ponder and come to their own conclusions that is great but you might be shocked when they don't come to YOUR predetermined conclusion. A predetermined conclusion ISN'T education.

    I gave you an example of how I took the information and came to a different conclusion than the professor who proceeded to lose her mind when her thinking was applied in an non-approved manner.

    Having more information from more sources is great. Just don't lose your mind when your conclusions aren't what they automatically fall to in the end.

    It's clear when you say something like "So, you feel children should never learn any empathy for a group you hate. Wow. I suppose when you walk past a rock you try to guess its weight and effective range." you aren't interested in education but in indoctrination. Don't be angry and shocked when indoctrination doesn't work.

    Quote Originally Posted by HayJenn View Post
    No silly.

    It has nothing to do with teaching sex.

    It highlights the contributions the LGTB community has made to our history.

    My son confirmed he had a section about the LGTB community in one of his Social Studies class. It's not really a big deal or earth shattering info. It's the same as highlighting Fredrick Douglas for instance
    For now as you note, it appears to be a type of tokenism. Tokenism with an attempt at indoctrination. When that fails the deeper and more authoritarian measures will be taken. You have to love big brother.

    Quote Originally Posted by HayJenn View Post
    Mmm, pretty easy. You just say gay people prefer to love someone of the same gender.

    Not really that complicated. Even in my son's HS class they never brought up the actual sexual acts of the LGTB community so I don't know why your getting that impression.

    And as with everything in the CA schools, if parents want their kids to opt out of anything they have the right to do so.
    How well is opting out working for immunizations now in California? Are you really sure you can opt out of this curriculum? Why would anyone be allowed to opt out of history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Panzareta View Post
    And this is pretty much the scope of practice surrounding this issue. Preventing harassment and violence.
    Can you explain how learning tokenism in history prevents harassment and violence?

    Quote Originally Posted by HayJenn View Post
    Under the law, social sciences curriculum in California and the United States must include the contributions of LGBT Americans, people with disabilities and members of other cultural groups.

    The newly approved textbooks also include more information on the farm labor movement and the role Filipinos played in it; information about the Mexican Repatriation Program, which illegally deported thousands of Mexican-Americans in the 1930s, many of whom were U.S. citizens; more details on African-American history, specifically the institution of slavery; and more on the plight of Native Americans in California’s missions.

    https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2017/11/15...-lgbt-history/

    Again, much ado about nothing.
    It is much ado until it becomes something. I think the outcomes aren't ordained in the manner people imagine. I've already read several articles about rising incidences of defacement and damage to Catholic symbols, the Missions and Father Serra.

    Here are three recent examples.

    Decapitated and doused with red paint: Vandals target St. Junipero Serra statue at Santa Barbara mission - LA Times

    Junipero Serra Statue Vandalized In Mission Hills « CBS Los Angeles

    Statue of Junipero Serra vandalized at San Gabriel mission | abc7.com

  4. #64
    Veteran Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trumptman View Post
    The point is if you provide information withe predetermined outcome, that is indoctrination and brainwashing. If you provide information so people can ponder and come to their own conclusions that is great but you might be shocked when they don't come to YOUR predetermined conclusion. A predetermined conclusion ISN'T education.

    I gave you an example of how I took the information and came to a different conclusion than the professor who proceeded to lose her mind when her thinking was applied in an non-approved manner.

    Having more information from more sources is great. Just don't lose your mind when your conclusions aren't what they automatically fall to in the end.

    It's clear when you say something like "So, you feel children should never learn any empathy for a group you hate. Wow. I suppose when you walk past a rock you try to guess its weight and effective range." you aren't interested in education but in indoctrination. Don't be angry and shocked when indoctrination doesn't work.



    For now as you note, it appears to be a type of tokenism. Tokenism with an attempt at indoctrination. When that fails the deeper and more authoritarian measures will be taken. You have to love big brother.



    How well is opting out working for immunizations now in California? Are you really sure you can opt out of this curriculum? Why would anyone be allowed to opt out of history?



    Can you explain how learning tokenism in history prevents harassment and violence?



    It is much ado until it becomes something. I think the outcomes aren't ordained in the manner people imagine. I've already read several articles about rising incidences of defacement and damage to Catholic symbols, the Missions and Father Serra.

    Here are three recent examples.

    Decapitated and doused with red paint: Vandals target St. Junipero Serra statue at Santa Barbara mission - LA Times

    Junipero Serra Statue Vandalized In Mission Hills « CBS Los Angeles

    Statue of Junipero Serra vandalized at San Gabriel mission | abc7.com
    How do you see these three examples relating to what went before?
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    How do you see these three examples relating to what went before?
    I'll need you to clarify and elaborate on what you are asking.

  6. #66
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    "Readin' is an R.


    bumpkin...
    Yippee, you got 1R, not 3Rs. How do you expect to teach the 3Rs when two of them are not even Rs?
    Thanks from Rasselas, sweettee, Leo2 and 1 others

  7. #67
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    It's no more irrelevant than is their race - yet I didn't see anyone object to race being referred to in history classes.
    If race or sexuality is relevant to what is being taught, then it should of course be taught. I am not suggesting anything should be hidden or pretended not to exist. For example, Dred Scott's race is entirely relevant to history; the Supreme Court's opinion in Dred Scott v. Sandford would make no sense without it. It just seems that, here, individuals' sexuality is being brought in gratuitously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Hell - there is even a Black History Month which is observed by schools. Do you object to that?
    Slightly, yes. For example, what month is Jewish History Month? Should we have a month for every group? We would run out of months if we did that, or they would have to compete for the best months.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Why is to say Obama was our first Black President yet it's not ok to say so and so was our first gay President?
    If we knew who the first gay president was, it would not be problematic to mention it. The difference is that race and racism have been an integral part of American history, while sexuality has only recently begun to play a role. Not to say there has been no history at all of gays in the United States - that would be absurd, and in fact western culture has long disdained and criminalized homosexual behavior. As I suggested earlier, though, it just seems like the issue is being forced in without a lot of context.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I have to go. But i'll be back later.
    No need to announce it on my account. I know we all have real lives.

  8. #68
    Junior Member Slartibartfast's Avatar
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    Sounds like America's education system is just getting as f***** up as the UK's.

  9. #69
    Veteran Member Panzareta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
    Sounds like America's education system is just getting as f***** up as the UK's.
    We shouldn't teach students that they should treat all their peers as they would like to be treated themselves? Do you hate Jesus too?
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
    Sounds like America's education system is just getting as f***** up as the UK's.
    In defense of the U.K., I doubt they would ever nominate an idiot like Trump, much less elect him.
    Thanks from sweettee

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