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Thread: Americans Are Symbolic Conservatives & Operational Liberals

  1. #31
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Another example was shown today on our local news. One of the Boston newspapers slammed the tax cuts as "crumbs to the dumb". Immediately following there was an outcry from the rural areas of "urban liberal elitists" who think a few bucks is crumbs by people in the outer areas.. Its another example of not wisely explaining an issue in a releatable way but instead choosing to call names..
    I do agree that things could be posed in different ways or at least ask people why they believe the tax cuts are all they are cracked up to be so they go through the process of having to do the research and come up with something other than, because it is a republican and Trump idea. Unfortunately, it seems too many people are no longer go through the process of researching what they claim to be for or against, so they understand why they are for or against it and can truly articulate they understand what they are voting for or against.

    The other side of things seems to be people who take what other people say strictly as an insult, not as something that could possibly motivate them to be more than simply political or use "they insulted us so I don't like them" an excuse for voting against someone, not consideration of the real issues at hand.

    It is interesting that Trump demonstrates a total lack of letting everything, but personal accountability, slide off him. Calling every criticism or critique of him "fake" or some other derogatory adjective, instead of not being bothered by it or learning from it, seems to be his MO and in some cases, it is perhaps also the MO of some of his supporters.

    Granted, it seems honey attracts more than vinegar, but if all kinds of people keep calling someone something, then maybe it is time to put a little introspection, into motion and see if indeed, one might be contributing to the reason all kinds of other people, keep calling them the same thing. This is to be distinguished from bullies picking on those physically weaker and smaller than them and for no reason at all. Not all urban people are intelligent, not all rural folks are stupid or ignorant the same with not all rural people being intelligent, not all urban people being stupid or ignorant. Having lived a number of places, I have heard people in both settings, insult or express disdain and dislike of their their rural or urban counterparts. The other thing is, there were/are plenty of "working class" people who did NOT vote for Trump in rural and urban settings and many of them would NOT consider the suggestion that the tax plan is "crumbs to the dumb" to be an insult to them.

    Some people feel the suggestion that the entire population of "working class" people somehow feel Democrats turned their back on them, is an insult to their intelligence. They did not see it that way at all as many of them ARE just as much "working class" people as those who suggest Democrats turned their back on them or did not listen to them.

    HRC got nearly 3 million MORE votes than Trump. Trump's EC victory was based on a relatively few numbers of votes in a few key states. The combination of the loss of the popular vote and the small number of popular vote plurality victories in some key states, that handed him the EC votes, instead of the opposition candidate would not appear to suggest Trump became the overwhelmingly popular candidate of all rural folk, no matter what their education level or how they might test with regard to "intelligence".
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 11th January 2018 at 08:02 PM.

  2. #32
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWahoo View Post
    Again, I understand your points and do not totally disagree. My effort singularly was to state my perception based on my experience regarding the rural political mindset with a tendency to support the Republican party. There are differences in the concerns and perceived problems of rural versus urban folks. While those concerns and problem differences are influenced by beliefs and values, they are also impacted by varying population and geographic demographics between rural and urban areas. In my opinion, the "one size fits all" approach won't work and immediate needs should not be ignored. Being in the health care industry, it is my personal perception that federal legislation is developed via an urban view lacking a sufficient understanding of the varying needs of rural communities. Perhaps, related to government and religion, the urban perspective focuses on the "establishment" clause, while the rural perspective the "free exercise" clause or, at least, their perception of it. The bottom line, all I have is my perceptions based on my experiences and I most definitely do not have the answers. I do think that our political arena needs to be much, much less hostile if anyone's needs are going to be met.

    edit: Let me thank you for a civil, interesting and constructive discussion. While our discussions may have been few, that has been my experience with you so I look forward to our next discussion.
    I understand you're only explaining how they feel and how they view things. And I get your point about an urban fix to a problem may not work for a rural community. But Democrats have tried to specifically address problems of, for example, coal miners and they were rejected because the solution didn't involve putting them back in the mines. Trump comes along and says he's going to get rid of the regulations and they'll get their jobs back and they frikkin' believe him! Do they honestly believe it's just those pesky gubmint regulations that took those jobs away? Really? All I can do is shake my head.

    And thank you for a civil and constructive discussion. It really is possible to exchange views and not be offensive.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpicturetaker12 View Post
    Not entirely. But the phrase Babba has posted is FITTING to them. Rural Democrats are likely more into the 'symbolic' rugged individualism (conservative) then they actually are.
    Farmers have a history of socialist organizing - maybe more than any other group in the US. The grange, and farmer co ops are examples.
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  4. #34
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Another article today on a path for democrats. Seems Alaska is becoming purple. State that loves low taxes, hunting and the military yet is also not a "white" state. Yet democrats can and are winning. Interesting article..

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...cs-2018-216304
    Thanks from labrea and Babba

  5. #35
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Farmers have a history of socialist organizing - maybe more than any other group in the US. The grange, and farmer co ops are examples.
    There is a tv show on the USA network called "Damnation" which is about the farmers in the 1920s and 1930s and their organizing. Very socialistic.
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  6. #36
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Another article today on a path for democrats. Seems Alaska is becoming purple. State that loves low taxes, hunting and the military yet is also not a "white" state. Yet democrats can and are winning. Interesting article..

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...cs-2018-216304
    It just proves that all politics is local. Democrats just have to figure out how to run customized candidates for each particular race and at the same time retain their national identity with minorities, immigrants, women, gays, etc.
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  7. #37
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    It just proves that all politics is local. Democrats just have to figure out how to run customized candidates for each particular race and at the same time retain their national identity with minorities, immigrants, women, gays, etc.
    Guns and taxes are probably the biggest issues. I know here in NH we have no income or sales taxes but we tend to be a blue state. But talk about raising taxes anywhere and the voters will turn on you. Same thing with guns. Our last gubernatorial election had the democratic candidate getting support from the parents of Newtown for his proposals on gun control. Sununu won and he was down almost 30 points. Infuriated people. I dont think democrats realize in some of these areas, people actually use guns for food. Up in northern New England we have homesteaders and former logging communities who dont have money and they live off the land and rely on guns to feed their family. When democrats suggest permits, waiting times and taxes on ammunition it hurts these areas. I do think the DNC rely too heavily on Ivy League educated people to do their PR campaigns.
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