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Thread: The best argument against democracy

  1. #51
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    I do object.

    It is not a workable solution in the long run in a non-unitary govenment. A republic is more workable and even it is not made for a country of our size. Montesquieu warned of countries being too large for a republic to work and that is more viable than democracy.

    The Constitution and rights would be at the mercy of mob rule.
    please explain how the "constitution and rights" would be at the mercy of mob rule - and include, in you answer, why the rule of the majority would affect it?

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    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    and what, precisely, has that got to do with democracy?
    Civil rights would have made much slower progress under direct democracy. A country like Switzerland hasn't had to deal with civil rights issues at any where near the rate we have in the US.

    You still haven't addressed the fact that most people don't have the time or inclination to understand all of the issues related to governing a large country.

  3. #53
    A Character Tennyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    please explain how the "constitution and rights" would be at the mercy of mob rule - and include, in you answer, why the rule of the majority would affect it?
    Mob rule is the majority and the majority stays in power long enough to vote into law and to vote into office politicians who can facilitate a judicial system that is in league with the mob's idealogy to make the Constitution mean anything they choose. That happens now and we are not a democracy. It would be infinitely worse under a formal democracy.

  4. #54
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Civil rights would have made much slower progress under direct democracy. A country like Switzerland hasn't had to deal with civil rights issues at any where near the rate we have in the US.

    You still haven't addressed the fact that most people don't have the time or inclination to understand all of the issues related to governing a large country.
    sorry about that. explanation as follows:
    in the Swiss system, the federal legislature has the duty to author laws from both internal and external (citizens petition) sources. all laws are checked for constitutional compliance before they are submitted (in conversational languages) to the citizens for a vote. this eliminates the confusion about the understanding needed in legal terms to understand what is being voted on. if you need a more thorough understanding, I would defer to @galatin as to more particulars, as he is Swiss.

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    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    Mob rule is the majority and the majority stays in power long enough to vote into law and to vote into office politicians who can facilitate a judicial system that is in league with the mob's idealogy to make the Constitution mean anything they choose. That happens now and we are not a democracy. It would be infinitely worse under a formal democracy.
    you are still thinking the control of the political system by political parties and a republic. there is no such animal when the citizens are all independent voters and vote their consciences on issues.

  6. #56
    A Character Tennyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    sorry about that. explanation as follows:
    in the Swiss system, the federal legislature has the duty to author laws from both internal and external (citizens petition) sources. all laws are checked for constitutional compliance before they are submitted (in conversational languages) to the citizens for a vote. this eliminates the confusion about the understanding needed in legal terms to understand what is being voted on. if you need a more thorough understanding, I would defer to @galatin as to more particulars, as he is Swiss.
    The Switzerland Constitution allows the mob rule to strip away any constitutional right they choose.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    sorry about that. explanation as follows:
    in the Swiss system, the federal legislature has the duty to author laws from both internal and external (citizens petition) sources. all laws are checked for constitutional compliance before they are submitted (in conversational languages) to the citizens for a vote. this eliminates the confusion about the understanding needed in legal terms to understand what is being voted on. if you need a more thorough understanding, I would defer to @galatin as to more particulars, as he is Swiss.
    The other problem with direct democracy in a country this large is the number of decisions that need to be made each year. All we'd be doing is voting. No one has the time for that and we certainly can't afford it.

  8. #58
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    The Switzerland Constitution allows the mob rule to strip away any constitutional right they choose.
    actually, changes to the constitution require a majority of the voters plus a majority of the cantons (states) to concur.

  9. #59
    A Character Tennyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    you are still thinking the control of the political system by political parties and a republic. there is no such animal when the citizens are all independent voters and vote their consciences on issues.
    There is no independence. Since the inception of this county people will either gravitate to pro or anti Constitution. One of the purposes of the Constitution and Bill of Rights is to protect the country from human nature. And mob rule is human nature at its worse.

  10. #60
    A Character Tennyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    actually, changes to the constitution require a majority of the voters plus a majority of the cantons (states) to concur.
    That is still mob rule to eliminate rights. The existance of cantons and their powers are as vulnerable to mob rule as rights.

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