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Thread: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

  1. #31
    Veteran Member Kontrary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Plus, I am not sure it is the government's business, constitutionally, to determine what religion is fraudulent and what is not.
    What about those who have hired folks planted in the audience who then act out getting "healed"...this is to trick truly sick people into paying to be healed...they are prompted by intentional fraud that can be shown in court to be fraudulant ie, the person hired to pretend to be blind is not, and never was blind...thats intentional and therefore actionable fraud right? Or no?

  2. #32
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Fraud is fact based and fraudulent religions have no facts.
    No religion has facts. They are all about faith, beliefs, and the like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    We are not asking the government to create a new religion.
    We would be, in effect, since the state would be empowered to determine what is "truth" and "fact" in the context of "religion." Thus, the state would be defining religion, and would only be permitted that which is "state-approved."

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    We need religions we can respect or they will all die out.
    If they die out, that is their problem, not the government's.

  3. #33
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontrary View Post
    What about those who have hired folks planted in the audience who then act out getting "healed"...this is to trick truly sick people into paying to be healed...they are prompted by intentional fraud that can be shown in court to be fraudulant ie, the person hired to pretend to be blind is not, and never was blind...thats intentional and therefore actionable fraud right? Or no?
    The case you are looking for here is United States v. Ballard, 322 U.S. 78 (1944). I have not read the entire case. The Wikipedia article provides a summary.

    In essence, you are holding to the dissent by Chief Justice Stone, while I would hold more to Justice Jackson's dissent, but certainly to the majority (which did not address the issue of sincerity).

  4. #34
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    Has anyone here ever watched Peter Popoff? I watch to get a good laugh. What a fraud. For anyone to believe in someone like that baffles me. How? But then I remember who is President and my questions are all answered at once.

  5. #35
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namvet69 View Post
    Has anyone here ever watched Peter Popoff? I watch to get a good laugh. What a fraud. For anyone to believe in someone like that baffles me. How? But then I remember who is President and my questions are all answered at once.
    LOL. I don't think I'd heard that name before, so I read up on him a bit.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Popoff

    Steve Martin even made a movie based on stuff like him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_of_Faith_(film)

    There is even an award given out that Popoff "received" one year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigasus_Award

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    LOL. I don't think I'd heard that name before, so I read up on him a bit.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Popoff

    Steve Martin even made a movie based on stuff like him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_of_Faith_(film)

    There is even an award given out that Popoff "received" one year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigasus_Award
    Yeah, if you ever get a chance to see him don't pass up that chance. It's so over the top that he's like a very bad caricature of himself. Jim and Tammy baker were amateurs compared to this guy. Has multiple plants in his audience for his "healing" and always with the sales pitches for things like "Miracle Spring Water" Or promises of debt relief that he calls "Divine cash!" Has audience members claim that they were blessed by him and then checked their bank account and Poof! thousands of divine dollars!" "It's a Miracle I tells ya!" I feel bad for ya that you've never caught his show. It's unintentionally hilarious.

  7. #37
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    This is for you Ian. Enjoy and Heal!! Heal!! Heal!! lol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNl52deOZro

  8. #38
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namvet69 View Post
    This is for you Ian. Enjoy and Heal!! Heal!! Heal!! lol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNl52deOZro


    That was ... wow. And people bought that stuff.

  9. #39
    DEEP STATE CEO Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontrary View Post
    What about those who have hired folks planted in the audience who then act out getting "healed"...this is to trick truly sick people into paying to be healed...they are prompted by intentional fraud that can be shown in court to be fraudulant ie, the person hired to pretend to be blind is not, and never was blind...thats intentional and therefore actionable fraud right? Or no?
    Benny Hinn can't show his face in Australia because he faces fraud charges. The Australian Skeptics have an outstanding case against him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post


    That was ... wow. And people bought that stuff.
    Yeah, wasn't that something?! In my younger days we would (me and a few buddies) Toke up and watch that idiot and laugh our fool heads off. It is hard to believe someone would fall for that but hell, there's Trump and Jonestown. So go figure!
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey

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