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Thread: Is Big Business Really That Bad?

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    Is Big Business Really That Bad?

    Is Big Business Really That Bad?

    One of the most objective rebuttals I've read to the continuous flow of anti-corporate fiery rhetoric from the left wing.

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    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Is Big Business Really That Bad?

    One of the most objective rebuttals I've read to the continuous flow of anti-corporate fiery rhetoric from the left wing.
    That anti-excess rhetoric has flowed from both left and right for generations. It sort of disappeared for about 50 years during the New Deal period when the middle class exploded, but once that was over, people went right back to their default position of mistrust and disdain.

    Consider this bit from Information to Those Who Would Remove to America by Benjamin Franklin:

    The Truth is, that though there are in that Country few People so miserable as the Poor of Europe, there are also very few that in Europe would be called rich; it is rather a general happy Mediocrity that prevails. There are few great Proprietors of the Soil, and few Tenants; most People cultivate their own Lands, or follow some Handicraft or Merchandise; very few rich enough to live idly upon their Rents or Incomes, or to pay the high Prices given in Europe for Paintings, Statues, Architecture, and the other Works of Art, that are more curious than useful. Hence the natural Geniuses, that have arisen in America with such Talents, have uniformly quitted that Country for Europe, where they can be more suitably rewarded.

    And of course, there is nothing inherently wrong with businesses being big, but the very structure of capitalism is undemocratic. Once people have given up any alternatives to capitalism every being possible, they naturally go for the more democratic version of it. Instead of huge corporations owned and operated mostly by a tiny clique of shareholders with decisions always made in the name of their own profits, that control can be divided among many hundreds of business owners spread all over the country. Granted, it's a completely inefficient consolation prize when large enterprises can't have any form of democratic control, but people will take what they can get.
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    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    The issue is not whether big business is, or should be, a democratic type of institution; clearly, it neither is nor should be. The problem is that more and more wealth flows upward, leaving less and less for everyone else; and with that wealth goes power - power over resources in the private sector, and ultimately political power in the public sector. That undermines a democratically-oriented political system such as we have cultivated. And since the love of power over other people (being represented on the surface as the love of wealth) corrupts people, it is inherently untrustworthy, as are the people who possess that love and seek out wealth to excess.

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    Bizarroland Observer Thx1138's Avatar
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    Thx
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    Veteran Member Micro Machines Champion, Race Against Time Champion Tedminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Is Big Business Really That Bad?

    One of the most objective rebuttals I've read to the continuous flow of anti-corporate fiery rhetoric from the left wing.
    Big Business is ok... up until it has its own private military of over a quarter million soldiers and they seized the whole subcontinent of India, at which point people went oh shit.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

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    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    That video is over 1-1/2 hours long. Anything relevant to contribute without having to watch the whole thing?

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    Bizarroland Observer Thx1138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    That video is over 1-1/2 hours long. Anything relevant to contribute without having to watch the whole thing?
    It is more relevant and takes less time than the article posted in the op.

    Oh, and it won't send your HD into orbit like the article at the OP's link!

    Here is a synopsis for those who are in a hurry:



    Storyline


    It's evident today that corporations raise and spend huge amounts of money on the political campaigns of the presidents and congressmen. These corporations also spend huge amounts of money hiring former government officials to lobby congress to pass laws that mainly benefit their interest. If so, have we allowed other entities than people to monopolize government?

    The founding fathers were very concerned about the use of political power to benefit special interest groups, what they called factions - small segments of society that had their own selfish concerns that didn't relate to the benefit of others. So they wanted as much as possible to restrain the ability of the general government to engage in that kind of behavior.

    The system of "interventionism" that we have today serves the interest of the lobbyists and they represent the international corporations, because they have influence. Some say that what we need is a lobbying reform to keep the lobbyists away from lobbying, but that is not the answer because lobbying is petitioning the government and we have the right to do that.

    There are two answers to that. One, if we had the right people in Washington, the right members of the Congress, who would not yield to the temptation of being influence by money, but that doesn't seem to happen. The real solution is getting the government out of the business of being able to pass out favors, so there is no incentive for the businessman to come and lobby the member of Congress.

    Have we allowed corporate power to influence the creation of laws that fail to benefit the people? Lawyers will argue that indeed the corporations are people. They will argue that they're even good corporate citizens. But is a corporation really a citizen or for that matter even a person? And what about a multinational corporation, is that even a citizen of any particular country?

    https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/corporate-fascism/

    Thx
    Last edited by Thx1138; 9th March 2018 at 03:40 PM.
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    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    The founding fathers were very concerned about the use of political power to benefit special interest groups, what they called factions - small segments of society that had their own selfish concerns that didn't relate to the benefit of others. So they wanted as much as possible to restrain the ability of the general government to engage in that kind of behavior.
    I am not sure the founders had interest groups in mind. Rather, I think the "factions" referred to by Madison in Federalist #10 (following from Hamilton's #9) and #51 were what we call political parties.
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    Bizarroland Observer Thx1138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    I am not sure the founders had interest groups in mind. Rather, I think the "factions" referred to by Madison in Federalist #10 (following from Hamilton's #9) and #51 were what we call political parties.
    You should actually watch the vid Ian, it is certainly worth the time.

    I don't know, I'm not a legal scholar, but rather than get hung up on a single debatable point, how about considering the vid overall, and I suppose one would actually have to watch it to do that.

    I realize it is difficult to debate something that is not text, but it was just as much "submitted for your approval, etc." as anything else.

    Thx

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    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    You should actually watch the vid Ian, it is certainly worth the time.
    I am much more into Doctor Who these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    I don't know, I'm not a legal scholar, but rather than get hung up on a single debatable point, how about considering the vid overall, and I suppose one would actually have to watch it to do that.
    That did seem to be a relevant point worth commenting on, though. I have argued that what they then called "factions" are, today, actually a mixture of political parties and interest groups, since both are trying to sell ideas and platforms to the public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    I realize it is difficult to debate something that is not text...
    Kind of. I shall consider it when I get back from Shabbat. Have to sign off now until tomorrow night.

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