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Thread: 80% of mass shooters showed no interest in video games

  1. #31
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    So the fact that so many of these school shooters are reported to have been bullied at school - and it's been proven that bullying causes mental health problems doesn't look like a link to you?

    It seems like an obvious connection to me. Certainly more credible than this video game nonsense.

    When you have 1 in 20 students dropping out of school due to bullying that alone proves what a serious problem it is. It's also already been proven that school bullying leads to students committing suicide. Seems clear to me that if it it can lead someone to shoot themselves it could lead them to shoot others as well.
    Can you offer a link to an article stating that most school shooters have been bullied?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    I think it is a lot of contributing factors. The problem is, no one is paying attention until they commit a mass shooting.
    That wasn't the case here though.

    A lot of people were paying attention and alerted the authorities numerous times. Law enforcement was made aware of Cruz posting on the internet that he planned to become a “professional school shooter.” The Palm Beach police were told Cruz had made threats including even putting a gun to others people's heads. The Florida Department of Children and Families also ruled him stable despite clear evidence of self-harm. Officials at the school were also made aware that he was cutting himself, threatening students and taking pictures with guns and that he may have even swallowed gasoline in an attempt to kill himself.

    The fault here wasn't that no one was paying attention until they committed a mass shooting. The problem here was incompetent law enforcement.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    That wasn't the case here though.

    A lot of people were paying attention and alerted the authorities numerous times. Law enforcement was made aware of Cruz posting on the internet that he planned to become a “professional school shooter.” The Palm Beach police were told Cruz had made threats including even putting a gun to others people's heads. The Florida Department of Children and Families also ruled him stable despite clear evidence of self-harm. Officials at the school were also made aware that he was cutting himself, threatening students and taking pictures with guns and that he may have even swallowed gasoline in an attempt to kill himself.

    The fault here wasn't that no one was paying attention until they committed a mass shooting. The problem here was incompetent law enforcement.
    Law enforcement obviously did not believe Cruz was a threat...therefore, not paying attention to the threat. I am amazed that he held a gun to the head of his mother and brother, and no one thought that was a significant threat. I do agree, many people dropped the ball on this one.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Can you offer a link to an article stating that most school shooters have been bullied?
    This is not an issue people want to report on. They want to sweep bullying under the rug as it relates to school shootings so they can instead pursue their own agendas. I'm not buying it.

    But here is a huffingpost article (popular with democrats) that cites evidence.

    There is, however, a significant and growing body of research that there is a strong relationship between bullying and mass violence. Professors Michael Kimmel and Matthew Mahler of Stony Brook University (of the State University of New York) have found, for example, that most of the boys who have committed shootings in American high schools and middle schools were “mercilessly and routinely teased and bullied and that their violence was retaliatory against threats to their manhood.”

    https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0ge...RTWFLKzM3auYI-
    Last edited by Jeremy; 10th March 2018 at 09:13 AM.
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  5. #35
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    That wasn't the case here though.

    A lot of people were paying attention and alerted the authorities numerous times. Law enforcement was made aware of Cruz posting on the internet that he planned to become a “professional school shooter.” The Palm Beach police were told Cruz had made threats including even putting a gun to others people's heads. The Florida Department of Children and Families also ruled him stable despite clear evidence of self-harm. Officials at the school were also made aware that he was cutting himself, threatening students and taking pictures with guns and that he may have even swallowed gasoline in an attempt to kill himself.

    The fault here wasn't that no one was paying attention until they committed a mass shooting. The problem here was incompetent law enforcement.
    Yet, at least in many of these cases, Florida law enforcement can justifiably deny having had the ability to intervene. There is no law in Florida that would allow police to arrest a person or seize their firearms based on the sheer volume of warnings—if no single one of them merited an arrest and conviction. Nor is there a law that would allow police to step in with any effectiveness just because a friend or family member expressed special concern about a person's mental state, not without evidence of a crime, or of debilitating mental illness.
    Oregon's ERPO law, Senate Bill 719, was adopted in August of 2017. The bill describes a process that must begin with a law enforcement officer, a family or household member of the individual filing a petition with a court.

    The petition would name a potentially dangerous individual, and request that the court issue an extreme risk protection order, barring that individual from possessing or attempting to possess a "deadly weapon"—which includes all firearms, but can include any "instrument, article or substance specifically designed for and presently capable of causing death or serious physical injury," from the language of the bill itself.
    The process is not without pitfalls. To pursue a hypothetical, what if Florida had an ERPO law identical to Oregon's? First, someone would have had to take enough interest to deliver such a petition to the court. Cruz had no family left, although he did have friends and a "household," somewhat. Someone, a police officer, a friend, his host family, or one of the people that made one of those 911 calls, would have then taken it a step further, identifying Cruz as a significant threat to himself or others. They would have had to make enough of an effort to file the petition.

    According to the New York Times, these laws and the necessary processes to achieve an ERPO are still fairly unknown, even to law enforcement.

    After a petition is drafted, the decision would go to a court. The court would have to decide, based on the petitioner's statement and Cruz's past history, that he was a significant danger. Based on what we now know about Cruz's history, there's a good chance that the ERPO would have been issued. However, there's no guarantee—the petitioner must meet the burden of proof that Cruz presented an imminent risk of suicide or harm to another person.
    Raising Red Flags: What Florida Didn't Have, But Oregon Does

    It's just not quite as simple as some make it out to be.
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  6. #36
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    This is not an issue people want to report on. They want to sweep bullying under the rug as it relates to school shootings so they can instead pursue their own agendas. I'm not buying it.

    But here is a huffingpost article (popular with democrats) that cites evidence.

    There is, however, a significant and growing body of research that there is a strong relationship between bullying and mass violence. Professors Michael Kimmel and Matthew Mahler of Stony Brook University (of the State University of New York) have found, for example, that most of the boys who have committed shootings in American high schools and middle schools were “mercilessly and routinely teased and bullied and that their violence was retaliatory against threats to their manhood.”

    https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0ge...RTWFLKzM3auYI-
    I think people are looking at all kinds of possible causes and possible solutions. This could be one of many ideas that need to be pursued. I don't think it's being swept under the rug.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGaffer View Post
    I bet 80% of mass shooters showed a great interest in getting some military style guns and ammo. Shit, I bet it was 100% of them.
    Could you name some non military style guns?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Raising Red Flags: What Florida Didn't Have, But Oregon Does

    It's just not quite as simple as some make it out to be.
    It is that simple though.

    Cruz put a gun to someone's head Babba. He could have easily been arrested for that. Not to mention the steady stream of death threats he was making. To quote the Miami-Dade proesctuor: “There’s no doubt there was a failure. The idea that they were aware of it and could do nothing is absurd. ... We can’t let this happen again.”

    No Oregon laws were needed here. You can be arrested in Florida for simply refusing to give a cop your name... let alone making death threats with a gun.
    Last edited by Jeremy; 10th March 2018 at 09:29 AM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    I think people are looking at all kinds of possible causes and possible solutions. This could be one of many ideas that need to be pursued. I don't think it's being swept under the rug.
    Well we disagree. I believe it is being swept under the rug.

    They rather talk about guns or video games. I don't see any serious push to address school bullying as a result of this shooting.

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    I'd like to know more about the data set used for his conclusion. After all, it's safe to say that mass shooter Howard Unruh, who gunned down 31 people on September 6, 1949, was not influenced by video games.

    The video games in question are realistic 3D shooter games - which have only been around since (roughly 2005). If the OP research data includes mass shootings prior to around 2009, it's a safe bet that the shooters had limited or no exposure to such games. And including them would skew the data.
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