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Thread: FBI and CIA Independence

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    Mr. Rasselas,

    The FBI is under the Executive Branch. The President is the head of the Executive Branch. As it stands now, the FBI is not investigating the President.
    This is demonstrably false. The president is a subject of the investigation, not a target. Both "subject" and "target" are people being investigated. And neither of us knows what the FBI is investigating. If everyone is doing their jobs right, neither does Trump.

    And yes, the FBI is under the Executive Branch, but it's status is significantly different from, say the Department of the Interior. It's independence is enshrined in law.

    I don't know why you brought up Mueller, because the Special Prosecutor has nothing to do with the FBI. Perhaps you knew your position was so weak, you decided a strawman was your best course of action?
    You really are spouting nonsense. The FBI just raided Trump's lawyer's office and took privileged files regarding Trump based on probable cause that the lawyer was very likely helping Trump commit a crime. No one asked Trump's permission, nor could Trump have stopped them short of firing the people making this decisions.

    You're being disingenuous. I don't believe you're ignorant of these matters.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    This is demonstrably false. The president is a subject of the investigation, not a target. Both "subject" and "target" are people being investigated. And neither of us knows what the FBI is investigating. If everyone is doing their jobs right, neither does Trump.

    And yes, the FBI is under the Executive Branch, but it's status is significantly different from, say the Department of the Interior. It's independence is enshrined in law.

    You really are spouting nonsense. The FBI just raided Trump's lawyer's office and took privileged files regarding Trump based on probable cause that the lawyer was very likely helping Trump commit a crime. No one asked Trump's permission, nor could Trump have stopped them short of firing the people making this decisions.

    You're being disingenuous. I don't believe you're ignorant of these matters.
    Mr. Rasselas,

    In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate, but equally important groups. The FBI which investigates crimes and the federal prosecutes the offenders....

    These are their stories, Sorry to ruin your premise.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    Mr. Rasselas,

    In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate, but equally important groups. The FBI which investigates crimes and the federal prosecutes the offenders....

    These are their stories, Sorry to ruin your premise.
    What a bizarre, non sequitur response! More evidence of your disingenuousness.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    This is demonstrably false. The president is a subject of the investigation, not a target. Both "subject" and "target" are people being investigated. And neither of us knows what the FBI is investigating. If everyone is doing their jobs right, neither does Trump.

    And yes, the FBI is under the Executive Branch, but it's status is significantly different from, say the Department of the Interior. It's independence is enshrined in law.

    You really are spouting nonsense. The FBI just raided Trump's lawyer's office and took privileged files regarding Trump based on probable cause that the lawyer was very likely helping Trump commit a crime. No one asked Trump's permission, nor could Trump have stopped them short of firing the people making this decisions.

    You're being disingenuous. I don't believe you're ignorant of these matters.
    Mr. Rasselas,

    As to your first point, perhaps you should do some research:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indepe...tes_government

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    What a bizarre, non sequitur response! More evidence of your disingenuousness.
    Mr. Rasselas,

    I am to entertain when shooting down your contention that the Special Prosecutor, who works for the Justice Department is part of the FBI.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by excalibur View Post
    This is why the special counsel runs afoul of the Article II Appointments clause. Trump should have lawyers write up the reasons why the office of special counsel is unconstitutional, and use that reasoning to remove Mueller.
    While its true that the head of the FBI serves at the president's pleasure, and can be removed by his decision... my understanding is that its a problem if he does it to stop a legitimate investigation. That's the nuance that seems to matter.

  7. #57
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    What a crazy time, where the President of our country attacks his own intel agencies and justice department.
    Not so crazy, for an authoritarian demagogue who promotes rather his own welfare than the country's, and people vote for him anyway. Not most people, of course, which is fortunate, but enough....

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    A good case to peruse is Myers v United States (1925) regarding attacking and ultimately firing.

    Here is how it starts:

    MR. CHIEF JUSTICE TAFT delivered the opinion of the Court.

    This case presents the question whether under the Constitution the President has the exclusive power of removing executive officers of the United States whom he has appointed by and with the advice and consent of the Senate.
    Wikipedia summary

    Full case text

    (Note that the case was decided in 1926, not '25.)

    I haven't read this one in years. Will have to take a few minutes.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by excalibur View Post
    Um, yeah, because some of them were conspiring against him...
    Oh, wah.

    Talk about delusions of persecution, when even his supporters are whining about it.
    Thanks from boontito

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    While its true that the head of the FBI serves at the president's pleasure, and can be removed by his decision... my understanding is that its a problem if he does it to stop a legitimate investigation. That's the nuance that seems to matter.
    Source/cite?

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