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Thread: Comey's Book

  1. #101
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    He does more than that. He calls for his opponents to be jailed. He insults them regularly. These are dangerous things to do, but they are not unconstitutional. We were arguing about the Constitution earlier.
    No, none of that is unconstitutional. His reckless and absurd tweets are still protected by the First Amendment.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    OK...then let's talk:

    What would happen if Trump pardons himself and every crime his family and/or campaign has committed during their lifetime?
    1. Should we let that stand?
    2. If not, how do we nullify it?
    A court challenge based on the principle that no one may judge his own case. Another court challenge suggesting that the pardon is itself a crime of obstruction. Let's see how that works out before we go changing the Constitution.

    BTW, it's possible that courts would see the granting of pardons as an absolute right of the office. But it appears there is evidence that Trump (through intermediaries like Cohen) offered to grant pardons in exchange for "appropriate" testimony in cases involving Trump. The pardon itself might be legal, but offering pardons to people for misleading courts is witness tampering and/or obstruction.

    What happens if Trump refuses to comply with a subpoena issued by a grand jury?
    Lots of legal wrangling followed by an order to appear. The Secret Service has complete control of the president, so it can compel his attendance, given a lawful order to do so.
    Last edited by Rasselas; 15th April 2018 at 08:27 AM.

  3. #103
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    A court challenge based on the principle that no one may judge his own case. Another court challenge suggesting that the pardon is itself a crime of obstruction. Let's see how that works out before we go changing the Constitution.

    BTW, it's possible that courts would see the granting of pardons as an absolute right of the office. But it appears there is evidence that Trump (through intermediaries like Cohen) offered to grant pardons in exchange for "appropriate" testimony in cases involving Trump. The pardon itself might be legal, but offering pardons to people for misleading courts is witness tampering and/or obstruction.

    Lots of legal wrangling followed by an order to appear. The Secret Service has complete control of the president, so it can compel his attendance, given a lawful order to do so.
    Here's where we get to the fear of a constitutional crisis:
    This president has no respect for the law or any court.
    He's used the law to get his way all his life and simply ignores laws that get in his way.

    Courts have no ability to enforce their decisions. They rely on the Executive Branch for that.
    Presidents have complete control of the EB.
    If Nixon had refused to follow the SCOTUS decision to release tapes....what would have happened?
    If Trump refuses to follow court orders what will happen?

    Some con-law scholars believe a sitting President can't be indicted for any reason....that the only recourse is political......impeachment. This corrupt/GOP Congress won't impeach Trump for any reason.

    So.....now what happens?
    Will the SS side with their boss?
    Who will the FBI side with?
    Who will the Joint Chiefs side with?
    Who will the 50 states side with?

    Sound far fetched?......Elect Republicans and we put our country in grave danger!
    We must eradicate all GOP vermin from positions of power in the Nov. 6th Midterms
    Last edited by Devil505; 15th April 2018 at 09:09 AM.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Here's where we get to the fear of a constitutional crisis:
    This president has no respect for the law or any court.
    He's used the law to get his way all his life and simply ignores laws that get in his way.

    Courts have no ability to enforce their decisions. They rely on the Executive Branch for that.
    Presidents have control of the EB.
    They do if their orders are followed. But all executive branch employees take an oath to protect and defend the
    Constitution, which means they have to respect the orders of courts.
    If Nixon had refused to follow the SCOTUS decision to release tapes....what would have happened?
    If Trump refuses to follow court orders what will happen?

    Will the SS side with their boss?
    Who will the FBI side with?
    Who will the Joint Chief side with?
    These are good questions, and we go through legal processes to find out their answers.

    Sound far fetched?......Elect Republicans and we put our country in grave danger!
    We must eradicate all GOP vermin from positions of power in the Nov. 6th Midterms
    This is an entirely different message than your OP suggests. And it's a message both of us would send regardless of who is president.

  5. #105
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    They do if their orders are followed.
    ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    But all executive branch employees take an oath to protect and defend the
    Constitution, which means they have to respect the orders of courts.
    Have to or what???


    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    These are good questions, and we go through legal processes to find out their answers.
    But one side is already thumbing his nose at legal process.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    This is an entirely different message than your OP suggests. And it's a message both of us would send regardless of who is president.
    True but so far only Republican Presidents have threatened to destroy our republic with their abuses of power.
    Dems just steal and get into sex scandals......Far less dangerous to our nation.
    Last edited by Devil505; 15th April 2018 at 09:11 AM.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    ????


    Have to or what???


    But one side is already thumbing his nose at legal process.


    True but so far only Republican Presidents have threatened to destroy our republic with their abuses of power.
    Dems just steal and get into sex scandals......Far less dangerous to our nation.
    What you're suggesting is that sworn LE officers in the federal government will put their loyalty to Trump over their loyalty to the Constitution. That could happen under any system whatever. There's really no way to prevent, via the law, a grand conspiracy to create a king.

  7. #107
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    What you're suggesting is that sworn LE officers in the federal government will put their loyalty to Trump over their loyalty to the Constitution. That could happen under any system whatever. There's really no way to prevent, via the law, a grand conspiracy to create a king.
    Sworn federal LEO's could get confused as to what their duties should be.
    Follow a President telling them that he's right or follow the courts??

    I don't think the founding fathers ever prepared us for a criminal president backed by a criminal political party in control of congress.
    That's today's reality and somethings gotta give!!
    Last edited by Devil505; 15th April 2018 at 09:24 AM.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Sworn federal LEO's could get confused as to what their duties should be.
    Follow a President telling them that he's right or follow the courts??

    I don't think the founding fathers ever prepared us for a criminal president backed by a criminal political party in control of congress.
    That's today's reality and somethings gotta give!!
    Let's let the system work...until it doesn't. At that point we'll have a constitutional crisis. We've had those before.

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